Known Placenta Acreata.....Plan?

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I am done with this BS, and I don't have any clinical contribution to a pseudo clinical thread that is composed of random google search results.
I am actually done with this whole stupid forum and I do regret every minute I wasted on it.
Good Bye.

I agree with Plankton in that the whole cutting and pasting thing gets distracting. I love talking about clinical stuff, but I find myself avoiding these threads because it takes too much time to filter all the crap. Just another opinion...

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Something tells me we haven't truly seen the last of Plank... :rolleyes:
 
I agree with Plankton in that the whole cutting and pasting thing gets distracting. I love talking about clinical stuff, but I find myself avoiding these threads because it takes too much time to filter all the crap. Just another opinion...


Opinions without any data to support them are just like @#$@##@ everybody has one. So, while you may not want any hard data supporting one approach or idea vs. another many Residents/Fellows want to see EVIDENCE BASED MEDICINE.
 
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Opinions without any data to support them are just like @#$@##@ everybody has one. So, while you may not want any hard data supporting one approach or idea vs. another many Residents/Fellows want to see EVIDENCE BASED MEDICINE.

I support evidence based medicine. I think you always bring up many important points. I just think it would be more effective if you just posted the drive-home points and posted links to the articles. If most people here disagree with me, than fine, keep doing what your doing and I'll just deal with it.
 
I support evidence based medicine. I think you always bring up many important points. I just think it would be more effective if you just posted the drive-home points and posted links to the articles. If most people here disagree with me, than fine, keep doing what your doing and I'll just deal with it.

Happy to just provide the links. If that makes more people happy then I will stop posting the abstract.
 
Did CSE 2, 16g no aline

C-Hys
4 liters EBL
6 units prbc
3ffp
6 liters crystalloid

Mom and baby are well. done under CSE (spinal was supplemented with epidural about half way through

post labs HCT 30 Plt 138 INR 1.2

epidural is there for post op pain

all is well!


Only thing I would do diffrently is an a-line
 
Did CSE 2, 16g no aline

C-Hys
4 liters EBL
6 units prbc
3ffp
6 liters crystalloid

Mom and baby are well. done under CSE (spinal was supplemented with epidural about half way through

post labs HCT 30 Plt 138 INR 1.2

epidural is there for post op pain

all is well!


Only thing I would do diffrently is an a-line

Until one case doesn't go well.
 
Did CSE 2, 16g no aline

C-Hys
4 liters EBL
6 units prbc
3ffp
6 liters crystalloid

Mom and baby are well. done under CSE (spinal was supplemented with epidural about half way through

post labs HCT 30 Plt 138 INR 1.2

epidural is there for post op pain

all is well!


Only thing I would do diffrently is an a-line


I once did a liver resection under epidural anesthesia (no GA). The case went well. Still, I won't being doing it again that way.
 
Why are you busting his balls? He had a plan which went well and a backup in case he needed it.:confused:

Just to remind others that an N=1 doesn't validate an approach. The OP did a fine job with his anesthetic and I wish him well in his career. We can "get away" with a lot in this field. I know because I have done it or seen it many times.

Anyway, if I was "busting his balls" then I apologize.
 
Just to remind others that an N=1 doesn't validate an approach. The OP did a fine job with his anesthetic and I wish him well in his career. We can "get away" with a lot in this field. I know because I have done it or seen it many times.

Anyway, if I was "busting his balls" then I apologize.

fair enough
 
As mentioned previously, the presence of a sympathectomy will bite you when the poop hits the fan. You will wish you could undo it when that certain case comes along.
Likewise, when you have an epidural catheter in place in the patient who is now coagulopathic after depleting the blood bank, you will need an answer for what to do about it.
As mentioned, you can get away with a CSE in these cases probably 90% of the time( I am making that number up, I can't quote stats on what percent bleed profusely, although I know it is pretty high). What is important is the other 10%. Is 90% good enough?
 
Are you sure your GA is going to induce less sympathectomy than a spinal?
For those going down the GA path what would be your plan? no narcs? pent? sevo?
 
Are you sure your GA is going to induce less sympathectomy than a spinal?

In the worst case, if things go badly, a GA is a lot more titratable than a spinal. A nondepolarizer, a whiff of gas, and a little something extra for amnesia seems infinitely better to me than an awake or semi-awake crashing patient with a neuraxial block that I have to live with until it wears off.

For those going down the GA path what would be your plan? no narcs? pent? sevo?

Propofol, muscle relaxant of choice, gas of choice, fentanyl. ETT. Nothing special beyond good IV access with blood in the room. Wouldn't routinely place an a-line for an accreta.
 
As mentioned previously, the presence of a sympathectomy will bite you when the poop hits the fan. You will wish you could undo it when that certain case comes along.
Likewise, when you have an epidural catheter in place in the patient who is now coagulopathic after depleting the blood bank, you will need an answer for what to do about it.
As mentioned, you can get away with a CSE in these cases probably 90% of the time( I am making that number up, I can't quote stats on what percent bleed profusely, although I know it is pretty high). What is important is the other 10%. Is 90% good enough?

CSE had some advantages for mother and baby:

ie. uterine tone, baby was not depressed, surgeon took her time getting to uterus (& URO placed stents pre op), and mom was not exposed to risks of GA

I think your sympathectomy argument leading to an increased risk in a massive transfusion protocol is your opinion not based on any evidence. If there is a problem with vasomotor tone just start 4 mcgs of levophed?

once again, i did it this way cause the airway was easy and I had extra hands around.

2nd if the INR was 4 after the case no biggy she just keeps her epidural till its <1.5 (I wouldn't be happy about a cathter with an INR of 4 but it is manageable)

My technique is not the correct way or the incorrect way but it is an option for this case!
 
CSE had some advantages for mother and baby:

ie. uterine tone, baby was not depressed, surgeon took her time getting to uterus (& URO placed stents pre op), and mom was not exposed to risks of GA

I think your sympathectomy argument leading to an increased risk in a massive transfusion protocol is your opinion not based on any evidence. If there is a problem with vasomotor tone just start 4 mcgs of levophed?

once again, i did it this way cause the airway was easy and I had extra hands around.

2nd if the INR was 4 after the case no biggy she just keeps her epidural till its <1.5 (I wouldn't be happy about a cathter with an INR of 4 but it is manageable)

My technique is not the correct way or the incorrect way but it is an option for this case!

That's the beauty of anesthesiology. There are many "correct" ways to do a case. We may disagree on some issues, but that does not mean that one of us has to be wrong. As far as my opinion, you are correct. My opinion is that I would prefer NOT to have a neuraxial block in place to deal with. I did not mean to imply that it would increase the chance of massive transfusion, just that I feel it would make dealing with a massive transfusion more challenging. Sorry if that was unclear. I agree with pgg that the sympathectomy from a general is much easier to correct and deal with.
 
I just saw this...

I am done with this BS, and I don't have any clinical contribution to a pseudo clinical thread that is composed of random google search results.
I am actually done with this whole stupid forum and I do regret every minute I wasted on it.
Good Bye.

:laugh: :smuggrin: :thumbup:

Way to go PLANK! You really showed us!

Something tells me we haven't truly seen the last of Plank... :rolleyes:

Yeah, he'll just create another username (if he hasn't already) and come back posting under another pseudonym. :rolleyes:

-copro
 
We do these quite frequently because of our large OB volume and we do TONS of repeat C-Sections, and as you know, the risk for abnormal placental implantations rises with each C-Section. I recently did three of these in less than a month. We are strictly private practice, no residents. BTW, these cases should not come as a big surprise, unless your practice has a large number of patients with poor pre-natal care. Most of ours are diagnosed ahead of time.

We now do almost all of these with GETA from the start. We've tried being optimistic and going with epidurals but invariably these patients end up being put to sleep anyway. I haven't seen anyone mention DIC and/or dilutional coagulopathies, but that's certainly reason enough not to do a neuraxial technique. A boggy uterus is pretty much a given with these cases anyway, so GA really isn't contraindicated.

Two big IV's are a must, and if you really think it's going to hit the fan, it sure is nice having that introducer in place pre-induction instead of trying to do it under the drapes after you've already stepped in it. We generally go without the a-line.

Don't even consider just a type and screen with these cases. We type and cross for at least 4-6 units, and make sure the blood bank has more typed blood, FFP, pooled platelets, and cryo readily available. I will not start the case unless at least 4 units of blood are in the OR in a cooler. We transfuse early, and as soon as we do, we order the FFP and platelets and stay at least 4 units ahead on crossmatching more blood. These cases bleed like stink. Assume they will, treat it early, and most do pretty well.

These are not one-person cases either. We will usually have at least two anesthesia providers in the room the entire time, and it's not uncommon to have one or two more if necessary.

I just did my first one of these as an attending.

I couldn't agree more with this post.

We went straight to general. The time from incision until the baby was out was only 2 minutes, but then **** hit the fan. 1% sevo for 2 minutes isn't a big deal for the baby. They ended up doing a hysterectomy, so a boggy uterus wasn't an issue for the mommy either. The bleeding came real quick though. That was definitely not the time to have a "to do list." It took enough hands just to check and hang blood and push drugs. It was easy with the lines and ETT already in. It would have been extremely hard to convert to general in this case. Having seen the case go this way, I'm not going to take my chances in the future.
 
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