Military Pharmacy Time in Service - Question

[BC_89]

Im preparing for my transition out of the Army to civilian side (nervous) with my acceptance to a 3 year pharmD program and came upon a question I hope few may be able to assist:

If someone was prior service enlisted and upon graduating from pharmacy school (debt free), what would my time-in-service (TIS) and pay grade look like upon commissioning? Here’s the situation:

My active duty obligation is 5 years, all enlisted initially sign in for 8 yrs with option of being in reserves or IRR for remaining time. Albeit I’d be in school for the remaining 3 years with no pay, I’d still be fulfilling the last remaining time of my service obligation. Thus, upon commissioning wouldn’t my TIS and pay grade reflect O3E with 8 years in service?

Not very many AMEDD folks (specifically for pharmacy) can site or promise what it’d be by the time I’d comission. As a side note: I’m fighting a disability claim in order to commission in the future (fingers crossed).


TLDR; 5 years active duty service, 3 years in IRR. As a commissioned pharmacist would my pay grade reflect as an O3E with 8 years of service?

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[dpmd]

In theory yes, but if you are taking advantage of a scholarship program or something else which would render you nondeployable during school I could see them not counting the 3 years of irr. If you aren't doing that then depending on your MOS you run the risk of being deployed while in school (which happened to me during med school though I was a drilling reservist at the time)

 

[BC_89]

In theory yes, but if you are taking advantage of a scholarship program or something else which would render you nondeployable during school I could see them not counting the 3 years of irr. If you aren't doing that then depending on your MOS you run the risk of being deployed while in school (which happened to me during med school though I was a drilling reservist at the time)

In my case nothing would tie me down as nondeployable. Purely a clean cut during time in school using the GI bill while concurrently being in the IRR.

 

[DondeEstaElBano]

https://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/documents/fmr/archive/07aarch/07a_01_200202.pdf

 

[BC_89]

https://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/documents/fmr/archive/07aarch/07a_01_200202.pdf

Considered printed and on display lol.

For our huddles (since thus far no CPT is prior service in my region) I have what I thought was outdated regs and couldn’t find clear updates on HRC portal for army (go figure). I guess “.gov” and army resource center still don’t like to mesh for me.

My main concern was if entitlements (Chp 33) effected validation of pay grade like other services (ROTC, HPSP, etc) but this cleared it up.

I appreciate the reference!

 

[Kharak]

As others have said, IRR time is generally treated as DEP time which doesn't count towards retirement/payscale factors except for the active duty training/mobilization that occurs occasionally.

If I were in your shoes: I would go ready reserve, so that 3 years of reserve time (with enough points accumulated) does go towards the time counted. The Universities military/veteran affairs office generally has a lot of pull on campus and can get you time off and makeup dates for issues where your one weekend/two weeks conflicts with college.

So you have about 8 years in now.

Then I would apply for the JRCOSTEP/SRCOSTEP offered by the Public Health Service in your final two years. You will get paid as an O1E with 8 yrs time on the payscale for those! I'm not sure how the STEP programs are counted, but that could be as much as 10 years in starting on the payscale when you go Army or continue with PHS.

Dream BIG and good luck!

 

[BC_89]

As others have said, IRR time is generally treated as DEP time which doesn't count towards retirement/payscale factors except for the active duty training/mobilization that occurs occasionally.

If I were in your shoes: I would go ready reserve, so that 3 years of reserve time (with enough points accumulated) does go towards the time counted. The Universities military/veteran affairs office generally has a lot of pull on campus and can get you time off and makeup dates for issues where your one weekend/two weeks conflicts with college.

So you have about 8 years in now.

Then I would apply for the JRCOSTEP/SRCOSTEP offered by the Public Health Service in your final two years. You will get paid as an O1E with 8 yrs time on the payscale for those! I'm not sure how the STEP programs are counted, but that could be as much as 10 years in starting on the payscale when you go Army or continue with PHS.

Dream BIG and good luck!

This has been my line of thinking with the pay-grade representing longevity purposes but not necessarily toward retirement. Why would IRR count towards the 20 when you have to qualify so many points in the Reserves? Interesting enough though, I was discussing this yesterday in one of the clinics and an O-4 who was doing his residency and actually acknowledged that when he made a clean cut from 5 years active duty (enlisted) and later in life went to obtain a pharmD as a non-trad (36 years of age), evidently he qualified on retroactive pay from the time he joined (at this point nearly hitting his 1 year commission) and said that S1 explained that sure enough, he was suppose to be put on the pay-scale as an O3E with 8 years service albeit he only did 5 years as active duty. HE STATED this also was placing him to only do 12 years instead of the 15 for his 20-yr retirement..

From the reference obtained from @DondeEstaElBano: https://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/documents/fmr/archive/07aarch/07a_01_200202.pdf on title section 010103 "Creditable Service Periods", it states Include active or inactive service in any of the following components without restriction: Part B includes Army Reserve.

so, by that definition, inactive reserve (Hence IRR) would count. Also, intriguing to me was title section 010104 part M outlined under bullet #2 (a) it states A period of enlisted service in a Reserve Component under 10 U.S.C. 12103(b) or (d), including inactive service under a DEP, is creditable service only if the member performs inactive duty training before beginning active duty or an initial period of active duty for training.

If the initial period was actually active duty service but then placed in the reserves but considered inactive, I suppose this would also qualify for a member to join with 8 years of prior service with only 5 years active duty.... This form seems outdated but all the Regs I find on HRC .mil site doesn't specify clearly anything that has changed since 2002 which this reference is mostly from.

Im just confused and frustrated that if this is true, how and why am I just finding out about this now??? Definitely a blow on my intelligence and pride as an NCO... Is anyone else interpreting this differently?

 

[Kharak]

Hmm, M #2 would indicate that inactive reserves would bump you up to 8 years then!

So you're right, this is probably for pay purposes and not for retirement, as people who lateral from reserves to active enlisted would only credited with their activated time (generally about 50 days/year if you just do the minimum drilling).

P.S., if you do that JRCOSTEP program, you're gonna have a nice Patton-esque set of ribbons so whenever you are being lectured you can do a casual but obvious 'stack glance' at their measly ribbons and then have them watch as you slightly adjust yours. It will usually shut them up.

 

[lord999]

This has been my line of thinking with the pay-grade representing longevity purposes but not necessarily toward retirement. Why would IRR count towards the 20 when you have to qualify so many points in the Reserves? Interesting enough though, I was discussing this yesterday in one of the clinics and an O-4 who was doing his residency and actually acknowledged that when he made a clean cut from 5 years active duty (enlisted) and later in life went to obtain a pharmD as a non-trad (36 years of age), evidently he qualified on retroactive pay from the time he joined (at this point nearly hitting his 1 year commission) and said that S1 explained that sure enough, he was suppose to be put on the pay-scale as an O3E with 8 years service albeit he only did 5 years as active duty. HE STATED this also was placing him to only do 12 years instead of the 15 for his 20-yr retirement..

From the reference obtained from @DondeEstaElBano: https://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/documents/fmr/archive/07aarch/07a_01_200202.pdf on title section 010103 "Creditable Service Periods", it states Include active or inactive service in any of the following components without restriction: Part B includes Army Reserve.

so, by that definition, inactive reserve (Hence IRR) would count. Also, intriguing to me was title section 010104 part M outlined under bullet #2 (a) it states A period of enlisted service in a Reserve Component under 10 U.S.C. 12103(b) or (d), including inactive service under a DEP, is creditable service only if the member performs inactive duty training before beginning active duty or an initial period of active duty for training.

If the initial period was actually active duty service but then placed in the reserves but considered inactive, I suppose this would also qualify for a member to join with 8 years of prior service with only 5 years active duty.... This form seems outdated but all the Regs I find on HRC .mil site doesn't specify clearly anything that has changed since 2002 which this reference is mostly from.

Im just confused and frustrated that if this is true, how and why am I just finding out about this now??? Definitely a blow on my intelligence and pride as an NCO... Is anyone else interpreting this differently?

That's changed a bit, but that's still existent I see. There were a bunch of weird personnel moves in OEF/OIF because they could not afford to lose most of the senior officers and NCOs (thank you William Cohen for RIFing the best of that generation out). In my own class, we had two direct O-4 appointments simply because they were willing to take adverse assignments (Minot), and we had basically four or five of us who counted continuously from their enlistment to their graduation and are now eligible for retirement next year. There were also hard stop-losses, and we actually had two people from my class called from IRR to fill E-7 to E-9 slots because the personnel attrition was so bad (I am friends with both of them, and DoD made very good on their losses rejoining school two years later). Then again, every single member of my class who is in is at O-5 and O-6 now, and I expect a couple of stars to fall as well if they do not go to civilian SES.

 

[Ashleynunus]

I know this is way out of line, but please I'm trying to join the military and not sure what branch of the military is best, requirements, if grades matter etc. PS. Im a final year pharm student

 

[BC_89]

I know this is way out of line, but please I'm trying to join the military and not sure what branch of the military is best, requirements, if grades matter etc. PS. Im a final year pharm student

You’ll need to speak with an AMEDD recruiter and start on a packet upon earning your pharmD licensure. Grades are a criteria amongst many things, but with no background from you you’ll have to research the basics of each branch. All has pros n cons and all come with secondary tasks and obligations. PM for specific details

 

[acciouno]

Im preparing for my transition out of the Army to civilian side (nervous) with my acceptance to a 3 year pharmD program and came upon a question I hope few may be able to assist:

If someone was prior service enlisted and upon graduating from pharmacy school (debt free), what would my time-in-service (TIS) and pay grade look like upon commissioning? Here’s the situation:

My active duty obligation is 5 years, all enlisted initially sign in for 8 yrs with option of being in reserves or IRR for remaining time. Albeit I’d be in school for the remaining 3 years with no pay, I’d still be fulfilling the last remaining time of my service obligation. Thus, upon commissioning wouldn’t my TIS and pay grade reflect O3E with 8 years in service?

Not very many AMEDD folks (specifically for pharmacy) can site or promise what it’d be by the time I’d comission. As a side note: I’m fighting a disability claim in order to commission in the future (fingers crossed).


TLDR; 5 years active duty service, 3 years in IRR. As a commissioned pharmacist would my pay grade reflect as an O3E with 8 years of service?

So you’ll commission as O3E5, the pay is higher than an O3 who is just coming in the service. They only count active duty time, not IRR time. I’m in the same boat! I’m in my P2 year, so 3 more years to go including residency. I also have 5 years active duty.

 

[BC_89]

So you’ll commission as O3E5, the pay is higher than an O3 who is just coming in the service. They only count active duty time, not IRR time. I’m in the same boat! I’m in my P2 year, so 3 more years to go including residency. I also have 5 years active duty.

For retirement purposes they will only count active duty perhaps, but apparently army hrc reps are indeed counting IRR for pay purposes upon commissioning. I had the exact same thought process. Now I’m trying to confirm the regulations against what other field battalion “mustang” officers are telling me: that is, they indeed had their O3E pay grade include their IRR since they signed an 8 yr obligation as enlisted.

I’m still leaning my thoughts like you are just counting the active duty or reserve drilling. Now I need to ask these residency O4s if they were perhaps activated anytime during the IRR span.

 

[rebecca_chatul_tov]

Im preparing for my transition out of the Army to civilian side (nervous) with my acceptance to a 3 year pharmD program and came upon a question I hope few may be able to assist:

If someone was prior service enlisted and upon graduating from pharmacy school (debt free), what would my time-in-service (TIS) and pay grade look like upon commissioning? Here’s the situation:

My active duty obligation is 5 years, all enlisted initially sign in for 8 yrs with option of being in reserves or IRR for remaining time. Albeit I’d be in school for the remaining 3 years with no pay, I’d still be fulfilling the last remaining time of my service obligation. Thus, upon commissioning wouldn’t my TIS and pay grade reflect O3E with 8 years in service?

Not very many AMEDD folks (specifically for pharmacy) can site or promise what it’d be by the time I’d comission. As a side note: I’m fighting a disability claim in order to commission in the future (fingers crossed).


TLDR; 5 years active duty service, 3 years in IRR. As a commissioned pharmacist would my pay grade reflect as an O3E with 8 years of service?

You will be an O3E with a total of 8 years of service for pay and 5 years AD towards retirement. Your pharmacy school time will not count towards retirement but it will give you an additional pay bump. You can drill in the RC and still get retirement points that will work about to a month AD time towards retirement and give you some extra pay. If you have a disability rating that might interfere with commissioning I would recommend getting your commission through your state national guard and then doing an call to active duty packet. I have seen people do an end-run around medical issues that way.

 

[rebecca_chatul_tov]

For retirement purposes they will only count active duty perhaps, but apparently army hrc reps are indeed counting IRR for pay purposes upon commissioning. I had the exact same thought process. Now I’m trying to confirm the regulations against what other field battalion “mustang” officers are telling me: that is, they indeed had their O3E pay grade include their IRR since they signed an 8 yr obligation as enlisted.

I’m still leaning my thoughts like you are just counting the active duty or reserve drilling. Now I need to ask these residency O4s if they were perhaps activated anytime during the IRR span.

You technically can get called up in IRR status, but it would very unusual, ie Iraq 2003 when RA was hemorrhaging officers. Since you are in school it's almost 0% chance unless you are SF with an unusual skill set.