Clowns

[WhatJobDoIPick]

One of the reasons I left my hospital employed job was the lack of any semblance of Leadership.

I might be off base, but I view the filling of shift holes to fall as the feet of the people who call themselves leaders (chair, etc) if no other coverage can be found.

How does it work at your shop?

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[Porfirio]

They look for anyone else to do it. Leadership is busy doing leadership things.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

It depends what kind of group you’re in. If you’re in an SDG then that falls on the owners so I view it as my problem. If I worked for a CMG, I wouldn’t view it as my problem. If I worked for a hospital, I might feel somewhere in between depending on the relationship.

 

[RuralEDDoc]

It also depends on baseline coverage. If you have quadruple coverage and someone calls in sick, I don’t expect anything to happen. It’s just triple coverage instead. Single coverage or high volume double coverage is a different story - leadership needs to get that shift filled.

 

[xaelia]

It also depends on baseline coverage. If you have quadruple coverage and someone calls in sick, I don’t expect anything to happen. It’s just triple coverage instead. Single coverage or high volume double coverage is a different story - leadership needs to get that shift filled.

Less so that "leadership needs to get the shift filled" overall, as the OP seems to imply – but that leadership needs to have thought it through and have a plan. It might be that it just gets left open if there's sufficient coverage to ensure safety, an explicit backup roster, or that overlapping shifts get extended, etc. Just needs to be a durable and achievable plan in place for the inevitable one-off, short-term, and long-term absences that inevitably occur.

 

[emergentmd]

Our SDG - fell on doc who needed coverage. If an emergency, fell on other partners via begging. If still no coverage, fell on the medical director.

CMG - Who cares. No docs feels obligated. Medical director should cover but if not, then who? Many times if there is double coverage, they just run short. When there is no ownership, then why would I lose my precious down time to cover for another doc unless I personally like him?

 

[Pudortu]

Currently a director for a CMG at multiple sites that are absolute dumpster fires for coverage. I feel zero obligation to pick up extra shifts. It’s the CMG’s duty to cover those shifts. I don’t share in their profits. My meager stipend is for all the admin BS I have to do. I have a life and it’s not my responsibility to be on sick call coverage. Otherwise I would want to be paid 500k just in admin stipends. One time one of my colleagues told me I have a duty to pick up a shift if someone was sick. I think they were genuinely shocked when I told them that was nowhere in my contract or my duties. I don’t think people realize that’s what you get with these CMGs and people just assume it falls to the director.

 

[WhatJobDoIPick]

Currently a director for a CMG at multiple sites that are absolute dumpster fires for coverage. I feel zero obligation to pick up extra shifts. It’s the CMG’s duty to cover those shifts. I don’t share in their profits. My meager stipend is for all the admin BS I have to do. I have a life and it’s not my responsibility to be on sick call coverage. Otherwise I would want to be paid 500k just in admin stipends. One time one of my colleagues told me I have a duty to pick up a shift if someone was sick. I think they were genuinely shocked when I told them that was nowhere in my contract or my duties. I don’t think people realize that’s what you get with these CMGs and people just assume it falls to the director.

Agree for CMG.

For hospital system where these admin jokers are working 1 day shift / mo, I think they could pick up a shift.

The amount of good will they would generate would be enormous.

 

[alpinism]

In my experience most admin become admin specifically cause they hate clinical medicine.

Its one of the huge problems with EM that most leaders don't even like to practice the specialty.

 

[RuralEDDoc]

Less so that "leadership needs to get the shift filled" overall, as the OP seems to imply – but that leadership needs to have thought it through and have a plan. It might be that it just gets left open if there's sufficient coverage to ensure safety, an explicit backup roster, or that overlapping shifts get extended, etc. Just needs to be a durable and achievable plan in place for the inevitable one-off, short-term, and long-term absences that inevitably occur.

+1
Thank you for artfully completing my thought

 

[EctopicFetus]

One of the reasons I left my hospital employed job was the lack of any semblance of Leadership.

I might be off base, but I view the filling of shift holes to fall as the feet of the people who call themselves leaders (chair, etc) if no other coverage can be found.

How does it work at your shop?

In my SDG we have a mix of a backup system in our group. Depending on the site we utilize this person or the site itself will figure it out. We don’t really put the burden on the sick doc as they are usually dealing with a family issue/illness.

 

[alpinism]

Perfect example of the lack of leadership in emergency departments:

So I was on nights last week and our chairman was scheduled to relieve me in the morning. Waited for about 10 min before we called him and he's apparently not coming in until noon and the vice chairman was supposed to cover but had forgotten. Had to stay for about 30 min until they convinced another night shifter to stay late and cover the beginning of their morning shift. Didn't receive a single apology and they still expected that I come back on time for the next shift. I confront him about it and he can't understand why I'm upset since "It's only a few min that's nothing" not to mention "Its part of being a team player that sometimes you have to stay late."

The best part is that of course he literally never works on nights or holidays.

 

[BoardingDoc]

Perfect example of the lack of leadership in emergency departments:

So I was on nights last week and our chairman was scheduled to relieve me in the morning. Waited for about 10 min before we called him and he's apparently not coming in until noon and the vice chairman was supposed to cover but had forgotten. Had to stay for about 30 min until they convinced another night shifter to stay late and cover the beginning of their morning shift. Didn't receive a single apology and they still expected that I come back on time for the next shift. I confront him about it and he can't understand why I'm upset since "It's only a few min that's nothing" not to mention "Its part of being a team player that sometimes you have to stay late."

The best part is that of course he literally never works on nights or holidays.

Sounds like you have extremely s**tty leadership. CMG?

 

[sloh]

Perfect example of the lack of leadership in emergency departments:

So I was on nights last week and our chairman was scheduled to relieve me in the morning. Waited for about 10 min before we called him and he's apparently not coming in until noon and the vice chairman was supposed to cover but had forgotten. Had to stay for about 30 min until they convinced another night shifter to stay late and cover the beginning of their morning shift. Didn't receive a single apology and they still expected that I come back on time for the next shift. I confront him about it and he can't understand why I'm upset since "It's only a few min that's nothing" not to mention "Its part of being a team player that sometimes you have to stay late."

The best part is that of course he literally never works on nights or holidays.

“All hands on deck guys!”

Gaslighters. FYPM.

 

[Arcan57]

In my experience most admin become admin specifically cause they hate clinical medicine.

Its one of the huge problems with EM that most leaders don't even like to practice the specialty.

I'm not sure that's true so much as doing admin and doing EM are shockingly hard to integrate in a way that's successful on both fronts. Mostly this comes down to a mix of the admin side being under-resourced and the expectations of other EM docs that you a) work a full range of shifts and b) are as clinically productive on shift as any of your colleagues. Every other physician led department is going to bend around the physician leader's schedule or have significant admin support from the department itself. Especially in CMGs, an administrative assistant is rare below the level of regional director and most hospitals expect you to be on call 24/7 for administrative issues.

In terms of expectations from the docs, most meetings are going to be weekdays at 7a-9a, or at noon. If you work an overnight, you're trying to keep the contract while having either no sleep or having gotten 3-4 hrs. If you work weekends, you never see your family and end up divorced. If you work a lot of afternoon shifts, you end up pulling 16 hr days routinely. And when you work during the day, everyone in the hospital comes up and wants you to emergently deal with their issue. Nobody tries to pull a surgeon performing a colectomy into a sepsis meeting, but they'll think nothing of dragging you into ad-hoc meeting around blood culture contamination rates when you're trying to put in orders on a crashing patient. This makes it hard to keep pace clinically, both from the time perspective of actually dealing with the issue but also the constant task switching.

If you take a good clinical doc in the community and make them do significant admin, you'll find that a lot of them would end up looking like your current group of medical directors or they quit/step down quickly. Sure there are people doing it for the "cushy" schedule or as a powertrip. Even in the absence of those motivations there are plenty of reasons why EM leaders are looked down upon that have nothing to do with the quality of the person and everything to do with how the job is set up.

 

[alpinism]

Sounds like you have extremely s**tty leadership. CMG?

Nope straight hospital employed academics

 

[alpinism]

I'm not sure that's true so much as doing admin and doing EM are shockingly hard to integrate in a way that's successful on both fronts. Mostly this comes down to a mix of the admin side being under-resourced and the expectations of other EM docs that you a) work a full range of shifts and b) are as clinically productive on shift as any of your colleagues. Every other physician led department is going to bend around the physician leader's schedule or have significant admin support from the department itself. Especially in CMGs, an administrative assistant is rare below the level of regional director and most hospitals expect you to be on call 24/7 for administrative issues.

In terms of expectations from the docs, most meetings are going to be weekdays at 7a-9a, or at noon. If you work an overnight, you're trying to keep the contract while having either no sleep or having gotten 3-4 hrs. If you work weekends, you never see your family and end up divorced. If you work a lot of afternoon shifts, you end up pulling 16 hr days routinely. And when you work during the day, everyone in the hospital comes up and wants you to emergently deal with their issue. Nobody tries to pull a surgeon performing a colectomy into a sepsis meeting, but they'll think nothing of dragging you into ad-hoc meeting around blood culture contamination rates when you're trying to put in orders on a crashing patient. This makes it hard to keep pace clinically, both from the time perspective of actually dealing with the issue but also the constant task switching.

If you take a good clinical doc in the community and make them do significant admin, you'll find that a lot of them would end up looking like your current group of medical directors or they quit/step down quickly. Sure there are people doing it for the "cushy" schedule or as a powertrip. Even in the absence of those motivations there are plenty of reasons why EM leaders are looked down upon that have nothing to do with the quality of the person and everything to do with how the job is set up.

I don’t think anyone expects a full time schedule but its nice to work a few nights and holidays

 

[WhatJobDoIPick]

If you can't stand the heat then......you know the rest.

 

[WhatJobDoIPick]

If my former chair picked up just one weekend overnight a month, it would speak volumesssssss.

 

[Apollyon]

If my former chair picked up just one weekend overnight a month, it would speak volumesssssss.

Invariably, these people are morning people.

When I was a resident, I was working the overnight. My program director comes in to work (the office) at 5am, and walls right by the fishbowl when I tell my attending that this pt is a flake. She (the PD) hears this, and loses her ****. She takes one of the "shift report cards" and writes on it that I was "unprofessional". But, there was no other way to accurately describe the pt except as, well, a flake.

 

[Janders]

I'm not sure that's true so much as doing admin and doing EM are shockingly hard to integrate in a way that's successful on both fronts. Mostly this comes down to a mix of the admin side being under-resourced and the expectations of other EM docs that you a) work a full range of shifts and b) are as clinically productive on shift as any of your colleagues. Every other physician led department is going to bend around the physician leader's schedule or have significant admin support from the department itself. Especially in CMGs, an administrative assistant is rare below the level of regional director and most hospitals expect you to be on call 24/7 for administrative issues.

In terms of expectations from the docs, most meetings are going to be weekdays at 7a-9a, or at noon. If you work an overnight, you're trying to keep the contract while having either no sleep or having gotten 3-4 hrs. If you work weekends, you never see your family and end up divorced. If you work a lot of afternoon shifts, you end up pulling 16 hr days routinely. And when you work during the day, everyone in the hospital comes up and wants you to emergently deal with their issue. Nobody tries to pull a surgeon performing a colectomy into a sepsis meeting, but they'll think nothing of dragging you into ad-hoc meeting around blood culture contamination rates when you're trying to put in orders on a crashing patient. This makes it hard to keep pace clinically, both from the time perspective of actually dealing with the issue but also the constant task switching.

If you take a good clinical doc in the community and make them do significant admin, you'll find that a lot of them would end up looking like your current group of medical directors or they quit/step down quickly. Sure there are people doing it for the "cushy" schedule or as a powertrip. Even in the absence of those motivations there are plenty of reasons why EM leaders are looked down upon that have nothing to do with the quality of the person and everything to do with how the job is set up.

A lot of this is true.
I chair our community ED. I work about… 75-80% of an FTE clinical schedule. This is after cutting back recently. I work the same night % weekend % and holiday % as the rest of the group (nocturnist excepted). I do get second dibs in the schedule considering the metric **** ton of committees I chair or attend. I think that’s fair, but willing to hear dissent.

I started purposefully working the Monday 7a shift as much as possible bc otherwise I’m literally pulling an 8hr day of email response as all the issues that occurred after 11a on Friday all hit the M-F admins radars. I’d rather see patients and reply between them and stay a couple hours late to chart…

But otherwise I need to work a lot of noon and 3p weekday shifts to be able to attend meetings. At least one full 16hr day a week often two. And there is absolutely an expectation of 24/7/365 availability for admin crisis. I haven’t gone 72hr without a direct page:text:call requesting stat attention in 4 years now (including vacation).

I tend to stack a couple overnights before two days where I have 0730-0900 meetings I have to attend… I’m frontally dis inhibited but that may be a good thing.

It’s just rough balancing admin expectations and the ED life unless you are a big enough ED to allow the chair/director to work 4-5 shifts a month and really be a “suit” 3-4d a week. But most departments aren’t that large.

🤷‍♂️

 

[WhatJobDoIPick]

Invariably, these people are morning people.

Yeah, I mean, that's not my problem.

 

[WhatJobDoIPick]

A lot of this is true.
I chair our community ED. I work about… 75-80% of an FTE clinical schedule. This is after cutting back recently. I work the same night % weekend % and holiday % as the rest of the group (nocturnist excepted). I do get second dibs in the schedule considering the metric **** ton of committees I chair or attend. I think that’s fair, but willing to hear dissent.

I started purposefully working the Monday 7a shift as much as possible bc otherwise I’m literally pulling an 8hr day of email response as all the issues that occurred after 11a on Friday all hit the M-F admins radars. I’d rather see patients and reply between them and stay a couple hours late to chart…

But otherwise I need to work a lot of noon and 3p weekday shifts to be able to attend meetings. At least one full 16hr day a week often two. And there is absolutely an expectation of 24/7/365 availability for admin crisis. I haven’t gone 72hr without a direct page:text:call requesting stat attention in 4 years now (including vacation).

I tend to stack a couple overnights before two days where I have 0730-0900 meetings I have to attend… I’m frontally dis inhibited but that may be a good thing.

It’s just rough balancing admin expectations and the ED life unless you are a big enough ED to allow the chair/director to work 4-5 shifts a month and really be a “suit” 3-4d a week. But most departments aren’t that large.

🤷‍♂️

Meh.

You (proverbial you ...not actually you...it sounds like you're really good at your job) can't possibly be a good chair unless you have your finger on the pulse of the department. And the way to do that is to work shifts.

You can do chair work and then work every Friday overnight, or Saturday shift. Even 4 shifts / mo would signal you care about your docs.

 

[CoolDoc1729]

Even a few midnights a year. My boss hasn’t worked an overnight since I’ve been at my place (>10 years)

He is perpetually surprised that
1) we can’t get Dopplers after 2300
2) radiology reads take 2 hours, not 5 minutes
3) cath lab team takes ~30 minutes to arrive
4) ortho cases can take multiple hours because we share a night resident with another hospital
5) “yesterdays volumes “ don’t necessarily reflect my shift because .. most of my shift is on todays volume number, which isn’t published yet
Etc
It would be nice if directors maintained that kind of perspective and even an overnight every couple months would help that way.

 

[Arcan57]

As

Meh.

You (proverbial you ...not actually you...it sounds like you're really good at your job) can't possibly be a good chair unless you have your finger on the pulse of the department. And the way to do that is to work shifts.

You can do chair work and then work every Friday overnight, or Saturday shift. Even 4 shifts / mo would signal you care about your docs.

Would you work every Friday overnight or every Saturday day shift in addition to a 40hr/week of admin and another random day/evening shift every other week? How much would they have to pay you to work that job? Is your chair getting more than that?

 

[WhatJobDoIPick]

As

Would you work every Friday overnight or every Saturday day shift in addition to a 40hr/week of admin and another random day/evening shift every other week? How much would they have to pay you to work that job? Is your chair getting more than that?

I'm not the chair.

The chair chose to be the chair.

Strap on your big boy / girl pants and lead.

One of the site directors at my new job works a ton of weekends. The group president works swing and weekend shifts. There's a guy who is about to retire who still pulls nights.

This is what leadership looks like.

 

[Tenk]

I thought this thread was going to be about treating clowns in the emergency department and if you were comfortable doing so.

I personally hate clowns and would have a difficult time treating one. Clowns suck.

 

[RustedFox]

Send in the clowns...

 

[Apollyon]

I thought this thread was going to be about treating clowns in the emergency department and if you were comfortable doing so.

I personally hate clowns and would have a difficult time treating one. Clowns suck.

 

[Tenk]

That doesn’t really bother me. That’s obviously evil so I’d just punch it in the face. It’s the normal clowns I don’t like. I don’t trust them. This all started when I was a kid and my grandma took me to a McDonald’s to meet Ronald McDonald and I cried. I’ve hated them ever since.

 

[hundreddaysoff]

A lot of this is true.
I chair our community ED. I work about… 75-80% of an FTE clinical schedule. This is after cutting back recently. I work the same night % weekend % and holiday % as the rest of the group (nocturnist excepted). I do get second dibs in the schedule considering the metric **** ton of committees I chair or attend. I think that’s fair, but willing to hear dissent.

I started purposefully working the Monday 7a shift as much as possible bc otherwise I’m literally pulling an 8hr day of email response as all the issues that occurred after 11a on Friday all hit the M-F admins radars. I’d rather see patients and reply between them and stay a couple hours late to chart…

But otherwise I need to work a lot of noon and 3p weekday shifts to be able to attend meetings. At least one full 16hr day a week often two. And there is absolutely an expectation of 24/7/365 availability for admin crisis. I haven’t gone 72hr without a direct page:text:call requesting stat attention in 4 years now (including vacation).

I tend to stack a couple overnights before two days where I have 0730-0900 meetings I have to attend… I’m frontally dis inhibited but that may be a good thing.

It’s just rough balancing admin expectations and the ED life unless you are a big enough ED to allow the chair/director to work 4-5 shifts a month and really be a “suit” 3-4d a week. But most departments aren’t that large.

🤷‍♂️

If I may ask, why do you do this admin stuff? What motivates you? Extra money, better patient care, something else?

As I have written, I do enjoy the pit doc night shifts. As a future old person and patient, I also feel a certain minor responsibility to myself and my family to do what I can so that my local ER continues to be well-run for decades even after I stop pulling shifts there. But, what you describe does not sound the least bit fun or sustainable, even if I was a saint or just a crazy power-tripper.

 

[RustedFox]

If I may ask, why do you do this admin stuff? What motivates you? Extra money, better patient care, something else?

As I have written, I do enjoy the pit doc night shifts. As a future old person and patient, I also feel a certain minor responsibility to myself and my family to do what I can so that my local ER continues to be well-run for decades even after I stop pulling shifts there. But, what you describe does not sound the least bit fun or sustainable, even if I was a saint or just a crazy power-tripper.

I'm with you up until this point, bro.
Any ER is one administrative tantrum away from being a reactor fire, at any point in time.
It's like that today.
It will be like that the very day you leave.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I do admin stuff and I enjoy it. I think the hardest part depends on your setup. SDG vs CMG vs academics. IMO the biggest lack of understanding comes from academics who are playing a game that doesn't involve patient care but rather climbing the academic rank game. In my residency our old chair would work Thursday mornings cause they were slowest. Great guy. But he was more politician than anything else. He was damn good at it too.

SDGs the issue is no one wants to pay for admin work and then they burn out their admin docs as some of the work NEEDS to be done and some of it pays a huge return on the investment. The group however wants everyone to be "equal" clinically so this is not sustainable.

The CMG just depends. if you don't pull shifts in a department how in gods name can you tell people what to do or have an understanding of a shift there. The FMDs are usually ok but sadly many want to climb the CMG corporate ladder and are in it for the wrong reasons and usually suck at it but think they are good.

EM is a tough spot.. we all say we need to be involved in admin so the Walden U grads don't tell us what to do but as soon as an EM doc becomes CMO we all call them sellouts and they don't understand our plight any longer. everyone is looking for a unicorn but they arent willing to be the unicorn.

 

[Apollyon]

That doesn’t really bother me. That’s obviously evil so I’d just punch it in the face. It’s the normal clowns I don’t like. I don’t trust them. This all started when I was a kid and my grandma took me to a McDonald’s to meet Ronald McDonald and I cried. I’ve hated them ever since.

To be fair, I did look for the most evil evil clown makeup. That one did make my wife cringe and look away!

 

[Tenk]

Have her watch this classic.

 

[Arcan57]

I do admin stuff and I enjoy it. I think the hardest part depends on your setup. SDG vs CMG vs academics. IMO the biggest lack of understanding comes from academics who are playing a game that doesn't involve patient care but rather climbing the academic rank game. In my residency our old chair would work Thursday mornings cause they were slowest. Great guy. But he was more politician than anything else. He was damn good at it too.

SDGs the issue is no one wants to pay for admin work and then they burn out their admin docs as some of the work NEEDS to be done and some of it pays a huge return on the investment. The group however wants everyone to be "equal" clinically so this is not sustainable.

The CMG just depends. if you don't pull shifts in a department how in gods name can you tell people what to do or have an understanding of a shift there. The FMDs are usually ok but sadly many want to climb the CMG corporate ladder and are in it for the wrong reasons and usually suck at it but think they are good.

EM is a tough spot.. we all say we need to be involved in admin so the Walden U grads don't tell us what to do but as soon as an EM doc becomes CMO we all call them sellouts and they don't understand our plight any longer. everyone is looking for a unicorn but they arent willing to be the unicorn.

The funny thing about CMG FMDs is that the next spot on the ladder (Regional Medical Director) is objectively so much worse than being an FMD. In fact, all the jobs on that ladder are terrible up until the divisional VP level which is frequently not given to someone that climbed up but someone that sold their group to the CMG.

Agree with the nobody wanting to be the unicorn, but remain puzzled that people expect the leader to tolerate conditions that they themselves would run screaming from simply because there's a title attached to the position. In return for a stipend that's almost always significantly less than what you'd earn working the same number of hours clinically, you get to be the "leader". So that means you have all the power, except you don't get to set pay, you don't get to set amount of coverage (or in a lot of cases what the doc/NPP split is), you have little to no say over nursing which is the source of 80+% of the metrics you're responsible for, you have to entertain crazy ("I can't work weekends or overnights because it's interfering with my social life") far too frequently since you're never flush enough with staffing, and everyone expects you to cover the holes. But it's a great job otherwise...

 

[alpinism]

Heh our chair makes 500K and works the equivalent of 2-12hr day shifts.

Meanwhile he is offering new grad seniors roughly 200/hr for 12-12hr night shifts.

 

[NYEMMED]

Heh our chair makes 500K and works the equivalent of 2-12hr day shifts.

Meanwhile he is offering new grad seniors roughly 200/hr for 12-12hr night shifts.

Guess it depends on their daily duties

Some Chair/Medical director roles are Monday-Friday in office roles, with many meetings with administration and committees throughout the day.

Others are a very remote position, not requiring as much time.

Really depends on the job requirements. Position #1, plus filling any scheduling holes, seems miserable, and they will always be at the hospital

 

[Apollyon]

View attachment 386050

Have her watch this classic.

That was a weird one - the Killer Klowns were just that, but, also, kinda fun. Even at the end, still fun.

 

[EctopicFetus]

All depends.. The regional roles are usually pretty cush. 1-2 clinical shifts in year. Usually as added coverage. 450k for many envision people.. no weekends, holidays etc. NOrmal daytime hours.. the main thing is you have to be a major ****.. no shortage of people willing.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

Perfect example of the lack of leadership in emergency departments:

So I was on nights last week and our chairman was scheduled to relieve me in the morning. Waited for about 10 min before we called him and he's apparently not coming in until noon and the vice chairman was supposed to cover but had forgotten. Had to stay for about 30 min until they convinced another night shifter to stay late and cover the beginning of their morning shift. Didn't receive a single apology and they still expected that I come back on time for the next shift. I confront him about it and he can't understand why I'm upset since "It's only a few min that's nothing" not to mention "Its part of being a team player that sometimes you have to stay late."

The best part is that of course he literally never works on nights or holidays.

Wtf.
Two of our admin folks are night docs... maybe just one now as we've had some recent elections and I'm not totally up to date. And everyone is on the holiday rotation. Wild that there are other arrangements.

 

[WhatJobDoIPick]

Wtf.
Two of our admin folks are night docs... maybe just one now as we've had some recent elections and I'm not totally up to date. And everyone is on the holiday rotation. Wild that there are other arrangements.

New job (SDG):

On memorial day 4 directors and the scheduler are working.

Old job (hospital employed):

On memorial day zero directors working.

Hence, clowns.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

New job (SDG):

On memorial day 4 directors and the scheduler are working.

Old job (hospital employed):

On memorial day zero directors working.

Hence, clowns.

That's how we do it. Unless we trade holidays or someone wants our holiday block, we work or at least probably work. Our scheduler does their best to make requests even on holidays.