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Why are you worried about thursday when tomorrow is wednesday
Another 25 years?
- Thread starter CHARLESTONMMM
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Why are you worried about thursday when tomorrow is wednesday
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living the anesthesia dream!
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Not all, but 100% most. Usually for 1/10th the $ per hour.
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Sometimes wonder if this feeling is a result of a shift work based specialty (ER/Anesthesia) or if all physicians across other disciplines feel similarly....
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We moved last fall. On the morning of the move, the dispatcher called me asking if it would be okay if my moving guys came at 9am instead of 8am as scheduled. I said sure that’s fine. So they show up at 9am and got to work. One of the guys doesn’t speak any English but the other guy does somewhat. Over the course of my move, it comes out that they did another job the day before moving someone from Southern California to San Francisco. The reason they asked for an extra hour is because they didn’t get back from San Francisco until 3am the night before. Then they humped our furniture and all our other crap for 9 hours straight. I’ve also hired roofers and landscapers. I wouldn’t last 3 days in any of those jobs so I’m grateful to have been a stool sitter for the past 20+ years complaining about bad doctor lounge food and the AC in the OR being too cold. It’s awesome.
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That's true. But furniture doesn't try to die on you every once in a while.
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My bookshelf is 80% of the way to collapsing if that counts
Not sure if you are serious. Compared to 99% of jobs out there out job is a cakewalk with a dream salary. I know that in life everyone likes to complain about their profession, but I promise you, the furniture movers would trade places with you in a heartbeat if they were able…
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So now we are furniture movers with a grade school education.
How about my ENT Buddy who works 40 hours per week with almost no call and pulls in $600k? He does a lot of office procedures like balloon sinusotomy which pays very well. Did I mention he doesn’t do any weekends and I have not seen him in the hospital after 400 pm for 15 years?
How about my ENT Buddy who works 40 hours per week with almost no call and pulls in $600k? He does a lot of office procedures like balloon sinusotomy which pays very well. Did I mention he doesn’t do any weekends and I have not seen him in the hospital after 400 pm for 15 years?
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Dude, I think you’re missing the point of Nimbus’ post: we can’t change any of the things we are complaining about here, so why not be happy with what we have? Life is all about perspective, and happiness equals expectations minus reality. Griping endlessly that we don’t make a million dollars a year for working banker hours is pointless, not to mention tone deaf to the problems a lot of other hard working people face
Not sure what your point is here. Are some people in life better off than us. Sure. Do I believe in making as much money as you can for the least amount of work possible. Of course. That doesn’t mean we can’t realize how enormously fortunate we are in the grand scheme of things. Case in point. My job, in which I work about 45-50 hours/ per week of very non strenuous labor easily covers the living expenses of my family while allowing me to save/invest over 10k per month. You think the average American even comes close to that ? We are very luck and it’s beyond foolish not to recognize it and enjoy it. Why waste time being jealous of those with more. There will always be someone……
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deleted126335
The hours/income/satisfaction level/security have all been on a downward trajectory. A trend that is likely to continue.
It’s not always where you are, but where you have been, and the direction that you are headed.
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Hysteresis - Wikipedia
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What’s the pay for that q4 call job?
Between first and second year of medical school I had a job in construction. Already had some research experience so just wanted to earn a little money.
great experience, hard work in the heat all day. It made me appreciate those long days in the air conditioned library studying the next year.
burnout is a real thing, hopefully you’re able to get some kind of rest.
Between first and second year of medical school I had a job in construction. Already had some research experience so just wanted to earn a little money.
great experience, hard work in the heat all day. It made me appreciate those long days in the air conditioned library studying the next year.
burnout is a real thing, hopefully you’re able to get some kind of rest.
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For the sake of our own happiness and sanity, it’s better not to compare at all. But if you’re gonna compare, it’s better to reference those less fortunate than ourselves.
This is a great movie…
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Reminds me of that circulos vitios guy. He told everyone for years about how it's so hard to work physical labor outside, medical school will be a breeze in the climate controlled area blah blah blah. I don't think he lasted a year in medical school before he quit and went back to his job.
Is anyone on SDN actually happy with their decision to go to medical school?
6 weeks into 2nd year and the happiness that I had in 1st year is dwindling away. Maybe because I'd rather be spending time outside during this wonderful summer weather than studying. This is exactly why I wish I was freezing cold the entire school year, and exactly why I love winter quarter :D
forums.studentdoctor.net
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I guess medical school wasn’t for them.Reminds me of that circulos vitios guy. He told everyone for years about how it's so hard to work physical labor outside, medical school will be a breeze in the climate controlled area blah blah blah. I don't think he lasted a year in medical school before he quit and went back to his job.
Is anyone on SDN actually happy with their decision to go to medical school?
6 weeks into 2nd year and the happiness that I had in 1st year is dwindling away. Maybe because I'd rather be spending time outside during this wonderful summer weather than studying. This is exactly why I wish I was freezing cold the entire school year, and exactly why I love winter quarter :D
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Similar situation. I've dug my ditches literally and figuratively. The only reason medicine stinks is that it is a career that is destined to get worse so you always feel compelled to save and save and scrap just in cases it happens sooner than you think.
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It’s hard to predict these things. The sky was predicted to fall in the 1960s(medicare) and 1990s (managed care) too. Changing demographics and a huge increase in demand for our services could serve to our advantage. Still a good idea to save.
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My worry is inflation, maintaining lifestyle, and the continued slow decline in reimbursement. I don't have a lavish lifestyle but I do worry that there will come a point in 15 years where I can't justify doing medicine over my side gigs due to the time versus effort and hassle of the career. I went to med school for the long, long term part time career enjoyment (I can't not have a job) as I am already essentially financially independent so it would be a real shame if we got to the point that the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. It worries me that it will happen sooner than I planned and it worries me that something drastic might change that makes my specialty unbearable to practice.
I don't think it will happen but it is still a concern because it's possible. If I wasn't FI then I would be way more worried.
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It’s this right here. I don’t feel physically exhausted. More mentally.
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deleted697535
Did you see the dental thread? That doesn't really matter
These threads always get a little wonky. Half of the folks will tell you how happy you should be, to suck it up, and quit complaining. Others will tell you they wished they picked a different specialty, and they’re miserable, too. Some will blame your current situation, and tell you it’s time to pick another group or location. To a certain extent, there’s some truth in all of them.
We all gotta eat. We have ourselves and/or family to care for. We have vacations we want to take, toys we want to buy, retirements that need to be funded, children that should go to college. SOME of that should lessen the “misery” of at least the first 5-10 years of a career. I can think of many harder, and certainly “slower” (read: less $$) ways to reaching financial independence than anesthesia.
With that said, the profession has certainly changed, with the rise of AMC’s, for-profit hospitals, and OR’s being treated more like “revenue generators” than patient care areas (more about $$ than patient OR employee satisfaction/health).
All I can do is share MY story. It may not be helpful. It may not be “right”. All I REALLY know is ME, and where I finally decided to “draw the line”.
I’ve always had the “plan” to either retire early (mid-late 40’s), or at least, slow WAY down, at that age. I live cheap. I paid off the house. Paid off a ranch (well, by year end). Lotsa money put away. Got many/most of the toys I wanted. I’ve been telling the group the “plan” for several years, and for the last 3 years, been trying to make the “part time” (20-ish weeks a year) happen. Had 2 guys in the group offer to split 2 jobs 3 ways (THEIR idea). THEN, they backed out. Group had a chance to hire some extra CRNA labor—-plans made—THEN, some CRNA’s leave. Talk to other guys in the group—some over 60, some pushing 60–about splitting a job. They still wanna stay full-time, either by choice, or due to previous poor financial planning. Yada, yada...
I REALLY wanna spend time with the kids before they hit high school, and get to that stage where spending time with their parents isn’t their biggest idea of “fun”. Got hobbies I wanna pursue, before I’m too old to do so (at least, with “gusto”). Mainly, I just feel like I’ve got “enough” money, that I don’t need to be locked up in a concrete box every day, chasing MORE money, that I DON’T need, when there are other things I’d rather do/see, and other people I’d like to spend time with, besides unappreciative administrators/patients/etc.
I’ve found myself getting more and more “angry”, when I’m at the hospital, and just sick of being there on holidays/weekends/nights, when other friends and family are out enjoying themselves. I want TIME, NOT MONEY!
It’s a good group, and not THAT malignant on hours, but frankly, the hospital STINKS from many perspectives (payor mix, administration, prior treatment of our group and threats to bring in AMC’s DESPITE a great reputation in town (to save a few $$)). While I’ve felt some obligation to the group, the hospital has little to no love from me (and members of the group feel the same, after years of poor treatment by a constant revolving door of administrators.
I finally reached my “breaking point” a few months back, on my birthday (late 40’s), and decided to “do it”. I told the group that early next year was IT for me. I was done. If they “want” 20 weeks of my time, for locums/vacations/etc, they can have it, but I’m not offering any more. If they DON’T want it, then it’s “retirement time” or, at most, maybe 12 weeks of locums a year, at other locations.
STILL don’t have a good answer from them, and, frankly, don’t care much, at this point. I know what I’ve got to do to maintain my happiness, my composure, my health, and my family.
I guess my ACTUAL advice, knowing that you’re not going to just “quit medicine” after years of school, and only 5 years of practice, is to set a GOAL. That’s not just a FINANCIAL goal, so you can walk away if you have to, but also a goal for your TIME, so you’ll know when it’s time to go part-time, or retire, or simply “walk away”.
Money is a big part of this. Having the “right” spouse, is also important. A spouse whose favorite hobby is spending the money you earn, or one that is going to take half of what you earned in a divorce settlement, makes for a LONG career, whether you like it or not. I’m fortunate that my spouse also makes a decent living, and has CONTROL over her schedule. Despite this, I will say that I’ve made/saved enough, that we could easily enjoy ourselves off my investments, after 19 years of doing this.
So, the GOOD news is, you might not have 25 more years to go. You might be able to get out in just another 12-15. If this is STILL too much to bear, consider looking at other jobs. Find a BIG group, with folks who are willing to take call off your hands. You MIGHT just need a “change of venue”. Familiarity DOES breed contempt. I’ve seen it. I’ve experienced it.
Maybe see if you can recruit someone else to “share” a job with you. You’re not alone. You’re not the only one who has felt this way.
Feel free to PM me. I know where there’s about to be a job opening! Good luck!!!
We all gotta eat. We have ourselves and/or family to care for. We have vacations we want to take, toys we want to buy, retirements that need to be funded, children that should go to college. SOME of that should lessen the “misery” of at least the first 5-10 years of a career. I can think of many harder, and certainly “slower” (read: less $$) ways to reaching financial independence than anesthesia.
With that said, the profession has certainly changed, with the rise of AMC’s, for-profit hospitals, and OR’s being treated more like “revenue generators” than patient care areas (more about $$ than patient OR employee satisfaction/health).
All I can do is share MY story. It may not be helpful. It may not be “right”. All I REALLY know is ME, and where I finally decided to “draw the line”.
I’ve always had the “plan” to either retire early (mid-late 40’s), or at least, slow WAY down, at that age. I live cheap. I paid off the house. Paid off a ranch (well, by year end). Lotsa money put away. Got many/most of the toys I wanted. I’ve been telling the group the “plan” for several years, and for the last 3 years, been trying to make the “part time” (20-ish weeks a year) happen. Had 2 guys in the group offer to split 2 jobs 3 ways (THEIR idea). THEN, they backed out. Group had a chance to hire some extra CRNA labor—-plans made—THEN, some CRNA’s leave. Talk to other guys in the group—some over 60, some pushing 60–about splitting a job. They still wanna stay full-time, either by choice, or due to previous poor financial planning. Yada, yada...
I REALLY wanna spend time with the kids before they hit high school, and get to that stage where spending time with their parents isn’t their biggest idea of “fun”. Got hobbies I wanna pursue, before I’m too old to do so (at least, with “gusto”). Mainly, I just feel like I’ve got “enough” money, that I don’t need to be locked up in a concrete box every day, chasing MORE money, that I DON’T need, when there are other things I’d rather do/see, and other people I’d like to spend time with, besides unappreciative administrators/patients/etc.
I’ve found myself getting more and more “angry”, when I’m at the hospital, and just sick of being there on holidays/weekends/nights, when other friends and family are out enjoying themselves. I want TIME, NOT MONEY!
It’s a good group, and not THAT malignant on hours, but frankly, the hospital STINKS from many perspectives (payor mix, administration, prior treatment of our group and threats to bring in AMC’s DESPITE a great reputation in town (to save a few $$)). While I’ve felt some obligation to the group, the hospital has little to no love from me (and members of the group feel the same, after years of poor treatment by a constant revolving door of administrators.
I finally reached my “breaking point” a few months back, on my birthday (late 40’s), and decided to “do it”. I told the group that early next year was IT for me. I was done. If they “want” 20 weeks of my time, for locums/vacations/etc, they can have it, but I’m not offering any more. If they DON’T want it, then it’s “retirement time” or, at most, maybe 12 weeks of locums a year, at other locations.
STILL don’t have a good answer from them, and, frankly, don’t care much, at this point. I know what I’ve got to do to maintain my happiness, my composure, my health, and my family.
I guess my ACTUAL advice, knowing that you’re not going to just “quit medicine” after years of school, and only 5 years of practice, is to set a GOAL. That’s not just a FINANCIAL goal, so you can walk away if you have to, but also a goal for your TIME, so you’ll know when it’s time to go part-time, or retire, or simply “walk away”.
Money is a big part of this. Having the “right” spouse, is also important. A spouse whose favorite hobby is spending the money you earn, or one that is going to take half of what you earned in a divorce settlement, makes for a LONG career, whether you like it or not. I’m fortunate that my spouse also makes a decent living, and has CONTROL over her schedule. Despite this, I will say that I’ve made/saved enough, that we could easily enjoy ourselves off my investments, after 19 years of doing this.
So, the GOOD news is, you might not have 25 more years to go. You might be able to get out in just another 12-15. If this is STILL too much to bear, consider looking at other jobs. Find a BIG group, with folks who are willing to take call off your hands. You MIGHT just need a “change of venue”. Familiarity DOES breed contempt. I’ve seen it. I’ve experienced it.
Maybe see if you can recruit someone else to “share” a job with you. You’re not alone. You’re not the only one who has felt this way.
Feel free to PM me. I know where there’s about to be a job opening! Good luck!!!
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Good for you. My plan is to have FU money within 10 years where I can basically do anything I want. I see some people in their 60s and even 70s working weekends, taking call etc. and I don't want that to be me. I want to make hay while we are still young and enjoy ourselves before it's too late.
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deleted941485
I feel the same way. I've been out now for 4 years and honestly ask myself this question everyday. Its utter misery. Same stuff day in and day out. It wouldn't be so bad but its just all the surrounding nonsense that goes into it.
Hey, I get it. Just being on call makes me ANGRY. The phone or pager (yes, I still have a pager) goes off, and just like Pavlov’s dogs salivated when they heard a bell, I get ANGRY just hearing that “ring” or “beep”, when on call.
It wouldn’t be so bad if it was a true emergency, but 3 times out of 4, it’s some surgeon who’s been working somewhere else, and “just finally got to this case”, or “they’ve got a full schedule tomorrow”, and gotta get this done. Weekends are worse. All day doing “clean up”, rather than REAL emergencies. Or they’re slow...
We’ve got one group of surgeons that are “academic”. No residents, but occasional students. The students don’t slow them down, the surgeons are just poorly skilled. Any case is automatically 2 hours, even an appy, and bowel cases are an automatic 3-4 hour time commitment (and that’s when they’re not trying to make it into a ROBOT case at 4-6 hours).
Competent and respectful surgeons and staff go a LONG way towards making call easier.
I don’t have any tattoos, but if I did, I swear it would be of Sisyphus, pushing the same rock up the SAME hill every day, only to do it all over again, tomorrow.
The patients and the actual job of anesthesia is almost never the issue. It’s the surgeons, the staff, the administrators, the politics, the computers, the.........
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I'm sorry to hear that. It sounds terrible. Our surgeons are better and a lot more reasonable.
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Well geez lots of you sound burned out bad. Catch up on sleep and then reassess. There are no call positions out there. Or maybe join a big group where there are younger people willing to work a ton… my group has that mix now. Some of us bank and work… others give away call. Anesthesia isn’t that bad…. Find a better gig
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You should speak with your partners about bringing someone else in to split a spot with you. If the job offer to the new person is reasonable you will have takers. Many are reaching their late 50's or early 60's looking for a reduced gig. If that doesn't work out then and only then do you walk away.
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In anesthesia bigger is indeed better most of the time. That said, rural gigs can be okay if the call is very light and they structure the deal with lots of time off.
This x 1 million. Most Anesthesiologists I've met minimize our contributions, Stupid and Subservient as usual. 99.5% must be doing healthy Cataracts or Endo 'cause if you've ever shown up in the middle of the night for a Airway, GI Bleed, Transplant, Trauma or STAT Section blah blah etc. you would NEVER compare our Field to this.
This is a life saving Field..poorly marketed thanks to scum bag Surgeons, Doucher Administrators and POS Insurance Companies. Don't even get me started on the Elephant in the Room Government and their Dog **** Medicare Reimbursement!! Please get rid of the richest Physician PAC and find an Organization that actually represents us and the Value we bring. The End
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This x 1 million. Most Anesthesiologists I've met minimize our contributions, Stupid and Subservient as usual. 99.5% must be doing healthy Cataracts or Endo 'cause if you've ever shown up in the middle of the night for a Airway, GI Bleed, Transplant, Trauma or STAT Section blah blah etc. you would NEVER compare our Field to this.
This is a life saving Field..poorly marketed thanks to scum bag Surgeons, Doucher Administrators and POS Insurance Companies. Don't even get me started on the Elephant in the Room Government and their Dog **** Medicare Reimbursement!! Please get rid of the richest Physician PAC and find an Organization that actually represents us and the Value we bring. The End
agree. a lot of anesthesiologists say stuff that dont exactly help the field. ive heard very often the ABC acronym, airway book chair, that many anesthesiologists still mention. doesnt make it sound like we deserve much of a paycheck if everyone thinks we just do airway book chair all day
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Tell that to the paramedics and EMTs who do it roadside, in the dark, with cars whizzing by at 90mph.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t complain but we shouldn’t complain. Anesthesia is a great job. As you say, it’s meaningful work, it’s safe, and we get to save lives on occasion. To top it all off, we get paid so handsomely that you can still support a family working part time with no call if you want to.
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It was predicted to get worse in the mid 90s when I finished but in reality the opposite has happened.
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This is what midlevels are for.
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Depends where u work. At many academic centers weekend emergency call is mostly scut cases that are not emergent. Our place is resident run. CRNA takes home call and only sver get called in when we are maxed out
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I’m just saying if you’re burning out sitting cases at all hours of the night consider a supervision job. Streaming shows in the call room>sitting a low acuity slow case.
The worst jobs are the ones that expect you to supervise 4 rooms during the day and then sit you’re own cases after hours. Eff that.
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This is terrible and seems backwards. The CRNAs should be there alongside the residents.
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This sucks. But doesn’t the money make it all better? At least that’s what I was led to believe. Lol
I despise call. I do nights instead which suck in their own right as well.
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Because he is.
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Crnas cost money. Residents don’t.
There was a survey on Reddit about crna relieving residents or vise versa. It was sort of eye opening for me. Turns out about 50/50.
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deleted697535
Why nights instead of call? Isnt it the same work essentially just different effect on your sleep cycle?
A while back they tried to bring in a week of nights. I opted out of that and thankfully it went away...
I kinda see it as... If i get a few hours sleep in its like a free day off! Plus i like emergency cases. No stupid plastics ****e for example or nonsense lists...
Personally i dont mind call but no one really hassles us up here at all really. What is a crna? Is that like a bank account or something?
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Seems to me , some people just don’t like being anesthesiologist. Hell it’s not glamorous but you gotta enjoy it somewhat , otherwise you are not gonna last 25 months let’s alone years
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The problem is its hard to do something else once you have invested that much time in the training.
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deleted697535
Has anyone here had another career?
I had, and it was sh1te
I had, and it was sh1te
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this is also true . I suggest maybe a bare minimum FT gig and see what you like. If you don’t like doing solo cases go to a place that has Crnas and vice versa . Don’t like call.. don’t do it. Maybe PP isn’t for you maybe academics. Perhaps go to a high pay area and bust it for 10-15 years and figure out what you want to do afterwards. It’s a tricky situation but during residency you may have realized you hate it. Should have switched out then . Good luck
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I do full time ICU.
If I was practicing anesthesia I would prefer to do a week of nights. The difference is I don’t have to worry about my pager going off or phone ringing for case for 12 of those 24 hours. Being awake for 24 hours straight sucks and is inhumane. I can do 18, but some places are brutal. There are no guarantees. With 12 hour nights the guarantee is you have 12 hours off.
