Matrix - Game Thread

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Her interactions with me just feel so wrong. my Gut tells me it’s her. I understand the logic of marmot -> PSV -> sporty/arch But that seems like a miserable and I don’t think it’s archi.
In what way do sport's interactions feel wrong to you?

I can't really follow your train of thought if you don't go into more detail

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Yes, and you make me paranoid too. I don’t like that you’re still alive. I don’t like that you said you don’t want to take me to F3, because part of me wonders “is it because she knows I’m gonna get paranoid of her?” I don’t like that you won best wolf and you’re sitting here with a bunch of people who haven’t seen you wolf lol. I don’t like that you’ve flip flopped your evaluation on me multiple times today alone.

And I have to reconcile that with the fact that there have been multiple outted PRs before you that were obvious kill choices, and the fact I just can’t wrap my head around the concept of wolf!you asking wolf!dubz to correct you on-thread if you get too angsty with me. And I have to pray that these new people are much better players than I am when it comes to their samac vision.
Yes. Those are the intentional things I have said to see what your read on me would be. To see how you'd react. And there was nothing. I was expecting you to question me, say something, but you didn't. And I think that means more into a wolf you world than a village you world.
 
In what way do sport's interactions feel wrong to you?

I can't really follow your train of thought if you don't go into more detail
It's a meta thing.
I usually get my read on her by how she is interacting with me.
When she is village she has a very hard time giving me a village read and is often very paranoid about me. She hadn't expressed any of that on thread, hadn't reacted my sus breadcrumbs I was throwing out on purpose (talking about being in f3, bringing her, making comments about being alive etc) that I would expect village her to.
 
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Day 5 Yeet Tally
marmot () -
PSV (2) - Clem 45, marmot 61
Sporty (1) - samac 100
Gikkle (1) - Gikkle 30

4/7
Missing: Achro 72, PSV 8, Sporty 51
yeet close in ~1.5 hours
 
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Yes. Those are the intentional things I have said to see what your read on me would be. To see how you'd react. And there was nothing. I was expecting you to question me, say something, but you didn't. And I think that means more into a wolf you world than a village you world.
Yes. And clearly I noticed them, because I’m talking about them now. If I hadn’t been concerned by them, I wouldn’t still be thinking about them.

I kept my mouth shut because I’m tired of fighting you game after game, and I’m choosing to believe in the villagey things you’ve done for once rather than derailing the thread with only one wolf left and many days left available to evaluate.
 
It's a meta thing.
I usually get my read on her by how she is interacting with me.
When she is village she has a very hard time giving me a village read and is often very paranoid about me. She hadn't expressed any of that on thread, hadn't reacted my sus breadcrumbs I was throwing out on purpose (talking about being in f3, bringing her, making comments about being alive etc) that I would expect village her to.
Well
I can't really say much about a meta read I have no context for
So imma just let this play out for a bit and see what happens
 
Dubz/Gikkle for my own review

something about the way you're posting is tripping every alarm bell in my brain and idk what it is

Can you explain this TR?

That's The Santy Effect(TM)

Lol no you cannot. I can give you that Stagg is trying too hard to look like he's trying, genny is probably okay (oh god how can I say that again so soon...) and Santy seems to be the same Santy that played last game.

Sorry you don't like my jokes though.

Hmmmm
Why is Stagg on this list

Also why am I on this list lol

I know why samac is here though I'm not quite there with her yet

I lost my spot again. F.

Someone remind me to read through the long Gikkle (sorry I keep wanting to call you Grackle) post with my brain on when I'm not popping in between cases

On a read of space post, what feels notable to me is

- Suspicion on Gikkle
- Giving Shinichi a pass
- Probably the only slot that townleaned Mayo
- Suspicion on Zenge
- Suspicion on moon (even after claim)
- Samac top town
- Stagg townlean to then sus by omgus

I liked this post and then I had immediate PTSD about last game's failed night kill analysis

Sorry I missed this
Agree on Santy, moon, genny, and tentatively Zenge. Agree on Stagg, Clem is possible but I don't think partnered with Stagg, and PSV I need to see more from her.

I'm nowhere near comfortable with mayo lol is this a reading card read?

Currently revisiting Shinichi, Gikkle, and Achro

Achromatic I'll need to make a bigger post about when I have more time bc there's not really just one thing that made me TR them.

Stagg on the other hand I thought looked good in his argument with you. The way he went about it didn't seem like he was just pushing an agenda. I also liked his recent talk about not getting caught if he doesn't want to - I don't really see W!stagg having the audacity to brag about how good they are at not getting caught in the middle of a scum game where several people are suspecting them lol.

@WildZoo thoughts on Achro and Gikkle atm?
I know you were waiting for Achro to be in thread to expand on some questions/thoughts

I ****ing
Can't remember what I was going to ask...
Sorry, I'm a lot busier than I expected to be but I'm on lunch now so going to prioritize figuring where my head was at with Achro stuff for a bit


Kinda surprised you've accepted my existence in the blocc. That feels like an uncommon occurrence.

What parts of the Gikkle case do you agree with?

Stagg
Ach
ro
PSV (not paired with Achro)
Shin
ichi
Mayo-->Marmot
Gik
kle
Cl
em
moon
gen
ny
Zenge
samac

Santy

I never really felt he was that towny to begin with yesterday and I haven't changed that opinion. I think his response to pressure is lackluster.

ExCUSE me? Me, below Gikkle? Pour quoi

Idk man I'm just uncomfy
But Zenge says you're village (I think? @Zenge142 you did say PSV is village, right?) and he's usually right about that when I'm wrong I think?

Except that one time

Yeah I don't think Gikkle is wolf

I don't really see stagg being a wolf but ig that doesn't mean much coming from me since you think we're paired

I really doubt he says what he did about not getting caught unless he wants to as a wolf though. Just feels super weird to say.

Respectfully, you don't know Stagg and I wouldn't base a read on something like that

Yeah gikkle lock town.

Dubz probably always a wolf unless the wolves just were sleeping

I agree with the gikkle town but like
You seem to just be mad that I was voting for you lol

Not actual mad! Just like, you know, game mad. I don't understand otherwise why you think I'm a wolf in that vote spread. I made the tie to see which direction it would break, it helped me get a read on Gikkle.

I refuse to accept a w!Gikkle because it means my tie move didn't work and I hate that

it also took gikkle out of danger

But then she turned around and put Gikkle in danger the next day?

Can you tell me who you have left out of the village reads? Sorry im working today and not as free as a usual Saturday day is

You, genny, Zenge and I feel like Clem should be in there too. I added Gikkle and Achro.

The important part is that it was the counterwagon to shinichi

So no wolves being on mkg (in a moonster/wildzoo/shinichi world) means wolves didn't try and save shinichi despite moonster & wildzoo both being online

which is REALLY weird considering moonster was on borrowed time & was inevitably going to die at some point, so losing another wolf would be really bad

Consider: I'm not a wolf

Unsure how to feel about being called 'easy'

Top o' me head without going through moon interactions and vote progressions myself yet:

Spinichi
PSV
mayormot
Clem
Achro
Gikkle

Zenge
samac

Moon and Spinichi: moderate to severe evidence of partnership

Reading the latter bit of this first set of quotes I had a flashback to the original StardeWW when AM pointedly told me I knew better than to defend someone I hadn't given a solid reason to village read. Twas while I was trying to prevent a packmate's yeet. This feels very similar.

^Quoted for completeness but this interaction could go either way




^this post feels important. I would be shook if there's not a packmate in here.

Noting these tallies




Shinichi then notices moon (this is where I wish conversation threads were a bit easier to follow here so I wouldn't have to reorganize things myself lol). There's nothing here to indicate that Shinichi was overtly bothered by moon defending him against a single vote for no reason - maybe a playstyle difference, but it would have raised my hackles. He questions it as kind of an aside but moon doesn't answer and he doesn't follow up.

~~~






~~~










~~~









~~~



~~~

Following these, Shinichi votes Zenge (I did not find a response from moon to the last question).



Actually open this one, it feels important:

I think it's interesting to note where the tally was at in the middle of this conversation



Because now suddenly moon's opinion of Shinichi has shifted from defense without reason to suspicion without reason. I think this is a distancing attempt as she's getting into hot water. Perhaps before the decision was made to fake claim doctor.



Doctor claim comes about 20 minutes later, moon then tags everyone a few minutes after that and Shinichi is quick to respond



My gut is just...unimpressed by this response


Shinichi disappears after that









Now...this does make me think maybe I'm wrong about Gikkle (or maybe Achro??). Or perhaps Shinichi was lurking to see if he would need to self prez. I am not surprised by moon not moving to save him if they're partnered because she wouldn't have known how long she had left before she'd be outted, and that would look very bad for Shin.

WIFOM about whether Gikkle as wolf in this scenario would point out this exact weirdness yesterday. I wasn't planning to spend time on worldbuilding in a moon/Gikkle scenario today but now I feel like I should...

If anyone has a reason off the top of their head why moon/Shinichi/Gikkle would be a terrible horrible pack to consider and wants to save me some time, pls do.

Yes

The final wolf is
Skill Issue
 
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Dubz/PSV

Of note at one point dubz lists my actual current POE so that's a little terrifying.
But also smart to throw one wolf in your POE?
Eh

Sorry I missed this
Agree on Santy, moon, genny, and tentatively Zenge. Agree on Stagg, Clem is possible but I don't think partnered with Stagg, and PSV I need to see more from her.

I'm nowhere near comfortable with mayo lol is this a reading card read?

Currently revisiting Shinichi, Gikkle, and Achro

Achro, Clem, PSV, Shinichi, mayo --> marmot

Stagg
Ach
ro
PSV (not paired with Achro)
Shin
ichi
Mayo-->Marmot
Gik
kle
Cl
em
moon
gen
ny
Zenge
samac

Santy

Ooo, colors :joyful:

Why is PSV not paired with Achro?

I doubt she chooses to make a case on a partner right at EOD on d1 for like, no discernable strategic reason

I never really felt he was that towny to begin with yesterday and I haven't changed that opinion. I think his response to pressure is lackluster.

ExCUSE me? Me, below Gikkle? Pour quoi

Idk man I'm just uncomfy
But Zenge says you're village (I think? @Zenge142 you did say PSV is village, right?) and he's usually right about that when I'm wrong I think?

Except that one time

not samac

I just really liked the cut of their gib yesterday. They only had a few posts but the ones in quick succession felt clean and fresh.

I'm at PSV, mayormot, Spinichi but it feels kind of gross? Idk. I'm not in the right headspace for panicking about my other greens yet.

Remind me where your POE is at now? I have bird brain today

@Zenge142 where are you at with your PSV read currently?

I am more confident in a SportyMD yeet than a Dubz yeet at this point in time

Imagine w!PSV choosing to fite with Sporty over me :laugh:

Unless...🐺🎭:eek:

Unsure how to feel about being called 'easy'

Top o' me head without going through moon interactions and vote progressions myself yet:

Spinichi
PSV
mayormot
Clem
Achro
Gikkle

Zenge
samac

A bit odd for PSV to drop a case on a packmate during a kind of unpredictable EOD though? Especially since there had been some buzzing about Achro iirc so it's not like he was totally safe from being wagoned last minute.

I'm resting and eating a breakfast sandwich so you are all unignored again for the moment. D1 moon/PSV stuff next but I don't think there's much there. And I know there isn't gonna be anything with mayo unfortunately.

I'm waffling on whether to spend time looking at interactions with moon in the days following the doctor claim. Just hard to know how outted the wolves felt she was at that point.
 
Sporty is very hard to ISO with Dubz because she refers to her different things at different times and it is infuriating.
Noted this is payback for my Gikkle fun lol
 
Where did this happen?
I would reconsider this slot if sporty flips v however. The dubz case on Sporty/Gikkle is obviously incorrect mathematically, but it's not farfetched to think that she would've cased these two as a team if one of them was her partner, as a way to take a townie down with the other. But I do think Sporty is much more likely to be a wolf here.
^^
 
Of note I did notice that Dubz defends PSV but consistently has her in the POE.

Dubz/marmot

HI MARMOT

Achro, Clem, PSV, Shinichi, mayo --> marmot

Yes, either marmot is not wolfing or is wolfing :laugh:

Why?

Oh hi marmot, are you caught up?

I wasn't talking about a counterclaim, I was talking about a claim that made moon's claim impossible in a post-Santy flip world

Ah, I meant someone claiming doctor, not someone claiming a role that doesn't exist with doctor. I feel like it's still kind of true with the latter, but I think there's more nuance there given that they aren't the same role, and everyone has different comfort levels with claiming.

Plus Santy's flip was kind of necessary in that case.

What is a naked yeet?

Um, but yet another question: Is Dubz the final wolf?

So um, but yet another question: Have you ever wanted to just drop everything else in life and go solve million dollar math problems?

I'm actually the 4th wolf

No. Numbers is villains.

I haven't done anything with bugs/insects but I have done an exam on a tarantula

A post that is just a vote with no other commentary

Thought: PSV/Achro as the final two wolves?


Maybe I'll dive into that tomorrow, but thinking back to Day 2, Santy was pushing Achro (although I think Achro talked Santy back on that ride) and also PSV was pushing an Achro/santy difference check.

Then Santy died.

The timing is kinda interesting in that it was a convenient time for Achro in that Santy died townreading Achro. PSV also dropped the difference check idea, which still bugs me. I think that particular facet doesn't necessarily make Achro a wolf, but it's not incompatible.

A bit odd for PSV to drop a case on a packmate during a kind of unpredictable EOD though? Especially since there had been some buzzing about Achro iirc so it's not like he was totally safe from being wagoned last minute.
 
But someone said actions are soft this game? So dubz wouldn’t have known she was caught red handed?
:thinking: Did this happen in the thread?
I can’t tell if slips like this are intentional, unimportant, or if marmot is village and not thinking these things through so that’s fun
😬
could be either/or imo
God I was I was a wolf.
Have you ever had a dream that, that, um, you had, you-
 
Did the person that received the 1-shot tracker inventor item ever claim?

Bc that's not disabled in endgame and would be a cop shot if anyone still had it
 
Day 5 Yeet Tally
marmot () -
PSV (3) - Clem 46, marmot 61, Sporty 61
Sporty (1) - samac 108
Gikkle (1) - Gikkle 33

5/7
Missing: Achro 72, PSV 12
yeet close in ~1 hour
 
Last edited:
w!clem

Wolf clem does **** all for the first day or two, sometimes longer, he chimes in with mech stuff, explains very little otherwise, and sometimes ganders to do more when pressured. That's my memory of his meta, but I also haven't played in a year, so it could have changed.

What do you think of his scum meta?
I agree with this assessment of his scum meta personally but that doesn't mean I can reliably read him
Marmot all I know about you is that jjj loves you. Which makes you terrifying.
I'm a JJJ stan despite that one time. Or perhaps because of it. Growth through adversity or something.
My hang up is dubz on d1 leaving her wolf partner out to dry.
Meh, I'm not sure I really see it that way? I guess my mentality is more like, we don't know what could've been going on behind the scenes so I don't particularly care for assessing things in this manner. And to be fair the idea of Dubz not being a wolf because she wouldn't kill Spacecamp N1... I mean. He dead
 
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Did the person that received the 1-shot tracker inventor item ever claim?

Bc that's not disabled in endgame and would be a cop shot if anyone still had it
No one ever claimed, but I also don't know if they picked up santy softing he was a PR and block + killed him that night afraid he was the blocker. I don't know that the tracker ever made it out.

Also with what I know about Santy I feel like he would have given it to Zenge.
 
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My legacy if I die will be sending love to genny


since it feels is the townread that could fade away more easily with me away from thread


Gl all!!
My guess is that they sent it to genny

Buuuut, if someone did still have it...
 
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Dubz/Achro

Her pushing him into a tie does not feel like a wolf Dubz move even though she moved off.

Sorry I missed this
Agree on Santy, moon, genny, and tentatively Zenge. Agree on Stagg, Clem is possible but I don't think partnered with Stagg, and PSV I need to see more from her.

I'm nowhere near comfortable with mayo lol is this a reading card read?

Currently revisiting Shinichi, Gikkle, and Achro

Hmm actually I think I'm not gonna talk about Achro too much before they show up because I'm really interested in where their thoughts are at today without too much leading

I thought it was to say that was why Achro was reading moon wolfy?? Because PRs act like "scared kittens" and it comes across wolfy? Idk.

I mean I'm familiar with the concept of PRs acting sketchy and that getting misread as scuminess but that description just didn't feel like it fit with moon's play

I also don't think Achro answered my question about the "classically wolfy" comment on Zenge but I also said I would find it if they'd said already and then I had to skim again so that might be my fault

Me: I'll talk about Achro later

Also me: Keeps thinking of additional things to ask Achro

Reminder for myself for later here

grumbles that Achro still isn't here yet

Fine I'll go back to ffiguring out Shinichi

Achro, Clem, PSV, Shinichi, mayo --> marmot

I ****ing
Can't remember what I was going to ask...
Sorry, I'm a lot busier than I expected to be but I'm on lunch now so going to prioritize figuring where my head was at with Achro stuff for a bit

Alright well now I have this...thing to ruminate on with Zenge's achro/samac pairing. I am...not seeing it. Like samac said, I have also figured out village reads and sheeped them d1. Or not even actually village reads, but just sheeped someone who I was interested in sheeping to see what they did, or to see if they were right. So samac's response to that didn't feel off to me? Like no one has ever really come at me for sheeping Zenge d1 or whatever iirc.

Achro separately has a lot more posts now and I'm running out of time, but @Achromatic could you point me to where (if you have) talked about 1) your primary suspects today and 2) your thoughts on the d1 wagons pre- and post- moon reveal?

Achro ignored my request but that's not why I voted him probably

I think Achro not doubting it to then today agree moon is pretty sus is also something that irks me a bit too. But idk idk

Stagg
Ach
ro
PSV (not paired with Achro)
Shin
ichi
Mayo-->Marmot
Gik
kle
Cl
em
moon
gen
ny
Zenge
samac

Santy

Oooooo

This is something I was waiting on to see if it happened but I missed it in his actual posts

Usually it's villagers who have no appreciation for my shenanigans :laugh: but I haven't read enough of his posts and am taking into account the reads of others who have. So in the middle he stays.

I voted Achro for the tie and to see how things moved

Though now that Santy pointed out Achro did exactly the thing that I thought a wolf!Achro would do re: moon, I might stay. Since no one wants to kill Stagg with me :rage:

Unyeet Achro yeet Stagg

I gotta try

You, genny, Zenge and I feel like Clem should be in there too. I added Gikkle and Achro.

Unsure how to feel about being called 'easy'

Top o' me head without going through moon interactions and vote progressions myself yet:

Spinichi
PSV
mayormot
Clem
Achro
Gikkle

Zenge
samac

A bit odd for PSV to drop a case on a packmate during a kind of unpredictable EOD though? Especially since there had been some buzzing about Achro iirc so it's not like he was totally safe from being wagoned last minute.

Moon and Spinichi: moderate to severe evidence of partnership

Reading the latter bit of this first set of quotes I had a flashback to the original StardeWW when AM pointedly told me I knew better than to defend someone I hadn't given a solid reason to village read. Twas while I was trying to prevent a packmate's yeet. This feels very similar.

^Quoted for completeness but this interaction could go either way




^this post feels important. I would be shook if there's not a packmate in here.

Noting these tallies




Shinichi then notices moon (this is where I wish conversation threads were a bit easier to follow here so I wouldn't have to reorganize things myself lol). There's nothing here to indicate that Shinichi was overtly bothered by moon defending him against a single vote for no reason - maybe a playstyle difference, but it would have raised my hackles. He questions it as kind of an aside but moon doesn't answer and he doesn't follow up.

~~~






~~~










~~~









~~~



~~~

Following these, Shinichi votes Zenge (I did not find a response from moon to the last question).



Actually open this one, it feels important:

I think it's interesting to note where the tally was at in the middle of this conversation



Because now suddenly moon's opinion of Shinichi has shifted from defense without reason to suspicion without reason. I think this is a distancing attempt as she's getting into hot water. Perhaps before the decision was made to fake claim doctor.



Doctor claim comes about 20 minutes later, moon then tags everyone a few minutes after that and Shinichi is quick to respond



My gut is just...unimpressed by this response


Shinichi disappears after that









Now...this does make me think maybe I'm wrong about Gikkle (or maybe Achro??). Or perhaps Shinichi was lurking to see if he would need to self prez. I am not surprised by moon not moving to save him if they're partnered because she wouldn't have known how long she had left before she'd be outted, and that would look very bad for Shin.

WIFOM about whether Gikkle as wolf in this scenario would point out this exact weirdness yesterday. I wasn't planning to spend time on worldbuilding in a moon/Gikkle scenario today but now I feel like I should...

If anyone has a reason off the top of their head why moon/Shinichi/Gikkle would be a terrible horrible pack to consider and wants to save me some time, pls do.
 
My guess is that they sent it to genny

Buuuut, if someone did still have it...
Yeah, that was likely attempted to be sent to genny. But if I had to guess we still have a wolf that is the blocker and they blocked santy that night.
 
No one ever claimed, but I also don't know if they picked up santy softing he was a PR and block + killed him that night afraid he was the blocker. I don't know that the tracker ever made it out.

Also with what I know about Santy I feel like he would have given it to Zenge.
Dubz was probably blocker right? Since they were RBed n2 but still had a shot to use on n3, which means they were likely 3-shot. And since they were RBed N2 they couldn't have blocked Santy that night.
 
Unless it is marmot and I blocked them N2, then someone did get it. But still probably genny. Or Zenge.
 
Dubz was probably blocker right? Since they were RBed n2 but still had a shot to use on n3, which means they were likely 3-shot. And since they were RBed N2 they couldn't have blocked Santy that night.
I don't think so. I think it is whoever is left.
Because it makes sense to ensure genny died that the wolves block genny and kill in the same night, I don't know why they would block clem.
 
But then again I don't know what the order of operations would be for a wolf blocker and a village blocker.
 
I don't think so. I think it is whoever is left.
Because it makes sense to ensure genny died that the wolves block genny and kill in the same night, I don't know why they would block clem.
Well that would mean dubz as the tracker didn't use an action n1 or n2? Bc for them to still have a shot n3 would imply that.

Which seems unlikely to me?
 
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All paranoia is justified I claim to be a top tier wolf and there's not much evidence in any of my wolf games to tell you otherwise.
I hope you stalk me by night and howl at the moon to fully engage with the character
I don't know dubz obv but I feel like its really obvious they weren't happy with my suspicion and tried to paint me as emotional. Maybe that's me knowing I am town tho
I never got this vibe
Vote PSV

This is not a naked yeet. Consider it fully clothed.
...just going with me because Gikkle said so? Couldn't even choose for thyself? smh
I was shaving testicles at the time, sowwy
 
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Well that would mean dubz as the tracker didn't use an action n1 or n2? Bc for them to still have a shot n3 would imply that.

Which seems unlikely to me?
Fair. If they're blocked theyd lose that track right? I don't know that it matters much though.
 
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