Men's Interview Clothing Thread

[captainnerd]

Originally Posted by brooklynblunder

lol, yea def the first thing i thought, that would be pretty awkward (well maybe not really, but it would be weird). he probably took the picture initially after purchase though

There are many people who wear the label. More often than not, it is when the label is of a "big name" like Calvin Klein or Hugo Boss. The real suit makers try not to advertise who they are. In fact, they put their names where it is most hidden: upside down and inside the pocket lining of the inside pocket. For the most exclusive suitmakers, their clientele are introduced to them via word of mouth from other clients and advertising is verboten. It keeps out the riff-raff.

The labels are placed on the arm because in large department stores that may carry 20 different "brand names" it makes it easy for customers to identify a jacket's maker. Unfortunately, this places emphasis on advertising dollars and house name recognition and less on actual quality such as the maker of the fabric or who the jacket was designed by (designer and house name may be different just like house name and fabric maker are different). In the end, the customer loses.

[Amdavadi]

Originally Posted by captainnerd

There are many people who wear the label. More often than not, it is when the label is of a "big name" like Calvin Klein or Hugo Boss. The real suit makers try not to advertise who they are. In fact, they put their names where it is most hidden: upside down and inside the pocket lining of the inside pocket. For the most exclusive suitmakers, their clientele are introduced to them via word of mouth from other clients and advertising is verboten. It keeps out the riff-raff.

The labels are placed there because in large department stores that may carry 20 different "brand names" it makes it easy for customers to identify a jacket's maker. Unfortunately, this places emphasis on advertising dollars and house name recognition and less on actual quality such as the maker of the fabric or who the jacket was designed by (designer and house name may be different just like house name and fabric maker are different). In the end, the customer loses.

Ok my label says haggar. Should I remove it? I have no idea abt this company's reputation.

Also guys, how about this one?

[captainnerd]

Originally Posted by Amdavadi

Ok my label says haggar. Should I remove it? I have no idea abt this company's reputation.

Also guys, how about this one?

I suggest you size down one or two sizes. It is too big. Keep the label on since you may want to refund it.

For the price of 3 decent suits (decent being $400 range), you can go bespoke and have one very well made suit. If you don't have to wear it very often, you can get away with having one suit and having tons of different shirts and ties.

And then when you get really big, you can go for very high end bespoke where the suits are the equivalent of about 10 decent suits. Like this guy:



Of course, you have to also afford a secretary and a personal assistant so you can find time to go in for a second and third fitting in the middle of your work day.

I guess what young children spend on suping up their cars with spoilers and exhaust systems, mature men spend on fine clothing and wines.

[LizzyM]

Originally Posted by captainnerd

There are many people who wear the label. More often than not, it is when the label is of a "big name" like Calvin Klein or Hugo Boss.

Remove the label. It is there for display in the store. Just as you snip off the price tag, remove the tag on the sleeve.

[austinap]

Originally Posted by LizzyM

Remove the label. It is there for display in the store. Just as you snip off the price tag, remove the tag on the sleeve.

This. Captainnerd, you lost a lot of credibility with me with that last post.

[Amdavadi]

Originally Posted by austinap

This. Captainnerd, you lost a lot of credibility with me with that last post.

Ok guys, I removed the label. Now, would someone please tell me how light blue shirt and dark blue tie looks on the black suit I have on?

P.S. CaptainNerd had a good point on why labels are put there.

[southernIM]

Originally Posted by captainnerd

There are many people who wear the label. More often than not, it is when the label is of a "big name" like Calvin Klein or Hugo Boss.

There aren't "many"; there are a few. They look dumb; like they forgot to cut the pricetag off before wearing it.

The real suit makers try not to advertise who they are. In fact, they put their names where it is most hidden: upside down and inside the pocket lining of the inside pocket. For the most exclusive suitmakers, their clientele are introduced to them via word of mouth from other clients and advertising is verboten. It keeps out the riff-raff.

For the most part I've been agreeing with you. But your last few comments are veering dangerously into "ask andy" forums territory.

In the end, the customer loses.

The customer loses even more than that. Most department stores nowadays are a messy mashup of 2nd tier companies, house labels (macy's has I think 4 different house labels now?), and "special" lines from designers made cheaply just for the department stores. The best example of this is Ralph Lauren - true Ralph Lauren suits are great suits; the "Lauren by Ralph Lauren" suits at Macy's are junk.

[captainnerd]

Originally Posted by austinap

This. Captainnerd, you lost a lot of credibility with me with that last post.

Sorry. What about that last post did you not like?

[captainnerd]

Originally Posted by southernIM

For the most part I've been agreeing with you. But your last few comments are veering dangerously into "ask andy" forums territory.

Sorry, I was just trying to educate you guys on the need for labels on the arms in a department store as opposed to a boutique where every suit in the store will be from the boutique. You wouldn't need a label on the arms if you entered into Norton and Sons since every suit in Norton and Sons is a Norton and Sons suit. I think I just got carried away.

And when I say "many," what I meant to say was "more than should be the case." If it is general knowledge that you cut off the label, then you should never encounter a person with the label on the arm. If you watch tv (and I know Americans watch enough tv), then it should be general knowledge that suits don't have labels on their arms.

In my lifetime, I've seen at least 5 people with the label on the arm. 3 in the last 3 months since I started optometry school. The 2 other was my friend's girlfriend's coat and my accountant. And I think I've seen countless people on the subway. I've never seen a President wear a label on his arm.

Originally Posted by southernIM

The customer loses even more than that. Most department stores nowadays are a messy mashup of 2nd tier companies, house labels (macy's has I think 4 different house labels now?), and "special" lines from designers made cheaply just for the department stores. The best example of this is Ralph Lauren - true Ralph Lauren suits are great suits; the "Lauren by Ralph Lauren" suits at Macy's are junk.

In the end, the producers will produce what the consumer wants. And if the consumer wants a cheaply made jacket for the sole purpose of an interview, then the producers will make it so. Suits have gotten so cheap that you can buy a suit, wear it for an interview, then throw it away since the cost of the suit was so little that it would be even more costly to have it take up space in your closet for the next 3 years before you have to wear it again. You can find a suit for $100. And since Americans don't care, who cares if it doesn't fit? You're only gonna wear it once a year or three. And since everyone else looks like sh!t, who cares if it doesn't fit?

This consumer philosophy is morally bankrupt. You see it in the cars we produce, the crappy computers we design and the Chinese build for us (and that our Quality Assurance teams approve), and the lead-laden toys we import (don't blame the Chinese, blame the consumer; us).

In many ways, I'm happy the banks failed. Maybe we'll spend less and get skinny again.

[Caesar]

Okay so I am going to go with Majority rules in here and admit that I apparently know far less about this stuff than I thought.

Someone educate me?

I found this website: http://www.thetiebar.com/categoryPag....asp?view=all&

I have no intention of buying one of these ties (they just have a lot of styles/colors all on one page), but which of them is acceptable under a black suit with a solid (probably white or light blue) shirt?

[austinap]

Originally Posted by captainnerd

Sorry. What about that last post did you not like?

It looks like it was a misunderstanding. I took some of your earlier statements to say "it's ok to wear your suit around with the label on the sleeve" rather than "too many people wear keep the label on the sleeve." My mistake, you have my trust again.

[heli0x]

Originally Posted by Caesar

Okay so I am going to go with Majority rules in here and admit that I apparently know far less about this stuff than I thought.

Someone educate me?

I found this website: http://www.thetiebar.com/categoryPag....asp?view=all&

I have no intention of buying one of these ties (they just have a lot of styles/colors all on one page), but which of them is acceptable under a black suit with a solid (probably white or light blue) shirt?

Well, the safest bet would be a navy, maybe one with a subtle pattern like this one, or this
Good call on deciding not to buy anything from that site. i mean 15 dollars a tie? i didnt even know there were ties that cheap. You probably know this, but a small word of advice, dont cheap out when buying ties, cuz a well constructed tie in a conservative color/pattern/style can last you pretty much your whole life

[voitokas]

Originally Posted by Caesar

Okay so I am going to go with Majority rules in here and admit that I apparently know far less about this stuff than I thought. Someone educate me? I found this website: http://www.thetiebar.com/categoryPag....asp?view=all& I have no intention of buying one of these ties (they just have a lot of styles/colors all on one page), but which of them is acceptable under a black suit with a solid (probably white or light blue) shirt?

Any of the ones with repp stripes in non-ridiculous colors, certainly. I'd stay away from pink or purple in the tie for an interview, just like I'd avoid patterned fabric in the shirt. Really any pattern should be fine if it doesn't draw too much attention to itself. The tie should be darker than the shirt - any older interviewers will equate dark shirt/light tie with the mafia, and younger interviewers may wonder where in the midwest you're from... No interviewer is going to give you points for having a really cool tie - but they might subconsciously hold it against you if you are wearing something childish or garish.

Originally Posted by Amdavadi

Ok guys, I removed the label. Now, would someone please tell me how light blue shirt and dark blue tie looks on the black suit I have on?

Definitely take the tag off the sleeve! Your tie and shirt colour are fine! Although you might pick a shirt with normal cloth - it looks a little busy...

Good luck!

[Caesar]

Originally Posted by voitokas

Any of the ones with repp stripes in non-ridiculous colors, certainly. I'd stay away from pink or purple in the tie for an interview, just like I'd avoid patterned fabric in the shirt. Really any pattern should be fine if it doesn't draw too much attention to itself. The tie should be darker than the shirt - any older interviewers will equate dark shirt/light tie with the mafia, and younger interviewers may wonder where in the midwest you're from... No interviewer is going to give you points for having a really cool tie - but they might subconsciously hold it against you if you are wearing something childish or garish.



Definitely take the tag off the sleeve! Your tie and shirt colour are fine! Although you might pick a shirt with normal cloth - it looks a little busy...

Good luck!

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page....&boysTiesOnly=

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page....iesOnly%25253D

either of these?

[TruthHurts]

True navy and black look very bad together.

[captainnerd]

Originally Posted by Caesar

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page....&boysTiesOnly=

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page....iesOnly%25253D

either of these?

The first contains too many stripes.
The second, the two stripes are the same in width. Although the better choice, I would rather have those same colors but with the white in a much narrower width. Like the photo I posted.

Also, I disagree with the idea of buying cheap ties is a bad thing. I think ties are the most superfluous thing that is part of the formal outfit. Why not buy a cheap tie? Ties do not require any tailoring and do not require any skilled labor to produce. It is nothing like a suit tailor or a pants maker. And nothing like a good shoe maker or shirtmaker. Shirts, suits, and shoes are not disposable. A good tie shouldn't be either. But if you spill soup on a hundred dollar tie, what are you to do? Clean it? With ties being made of the most delicate silks, it is impossible to clean. And because they're so vibrant in color, it'll be noticeable. With a shirt or suit, you can actually try to conceal or clean the stain. Ties, you're screwed.

Go ahead, buy the $15 tie. You have my blessing. In fact, I might just buy a few to see what they're like.

I remember there was a poll on Styleforum where they asked what items you can skimp on in terms of cost and the tie was the overwhelming winner. Suits and shoes are the most important investments.

[Caesar]

I wasn't buying them because I had never heard of the company before, I just googled something and it popped up on that page.

I have no qualms buying "cheap" ties, I'm all about saving money especially on things I rarely wear. I actually didn't notice the price when I first posted the link, I had just looked at the pictures.

Humor me as I ask about a couple more ties?

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page....&boysTiesOnly=

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page....oysTiesOnly%3D

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page....&boysTiesOnly=

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page....&boysTiesOnly=

[captainnerd]

Originally Posted by Caesar

I wasn't buying them because I had never heard of the company before, I just googled something and it popped up on that page.

I have no qualms buying "cheap" ties, I'm all about saving money especially on things I rarely wear. I actually didn't notice the price when I first posted the link, I had just looked at the pictures.

Humor me as I ask about a couple more ties?

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page....&boysTiesOnly=

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page....oysTiesOnly%3D

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page....&boysTiesOnly=

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page....&boysTiesOnly=

Only the last one was good. Polka dots are cool. But I don't like the background color and the polka dots are too close together.

I own a bunch of cheap ties that I bought on sale from J Crew. I think they were about $20 each. They look like ties. I can't distinguish them from my handmade ties. I'm never spending more than $40 on a tie again.

[voitokas]

Originally Posted by Caesar

I wasn't buying them because I had never heard of the company before, I just googled something and it popped up on that page.
I have no qualms buying "cheap" ties, I'm all about saving money especially on things I rarely wear. I actually didn't notice the price when I first posted the link, I had just looked at the pictures.
Humor me as I ask about a couple more ties?

The last one's alright. You might want to go buy one in person at the mall rather than ordering online. Something that looks good on the internet could turn out to be shiny and not-so-nice when it gets to your door. Do you know any older professional people whose opinion you could ask? Those are the sort of people who will be interviewing you.

Be comfortable,

[FloatOn]

I don't know why I'm up this late looking at men's ties, butttt...fat, striped ties look too frat-boy. Maybe something more subtle like this:

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCatP...r=&sectionsize=

[JimmerJammerMrK]

Originally Posted by Caesar

I wasn't buying them because I had never heard of the company before, I just googled something and it popped up on that page.

I have no qualms buying "cheap" ties, I'm all about saving money especially on things I rarely wear. I actually didn't notice the price when I first posted the link, I had just looked at the pictures.

Humor me as I ask about a couple more ties?

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page....&boysTiesOnly=

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page....oysTiesOnly%3D

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page....&boysTiesOnly=

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page....&boysTiesOnly=

I like 1, 3, and 4.

Originally Posted by captainnerd

I suggest you size down one or two sizes. It is too big. Keep the label on since you may want to refund it.

For the price of 3 decent suits (decent being $400 range), you can go bespoke and have one very well made suit. If you don't have to wear it very often, you can get away with having one suit and having tons of different shirts and ties.

And then when you get really big, you can go for very high end bespoke where the suits are the equivalent of about 10 decent suits. Like this guy:



Of course, you have to also afford a secretary and a personal assistant so you can find time to go in for a second and third fitting in the middle of your work day.

I guess what young children spend on suping up their cars with spoilers and exhaust systems, mature men spend on fine clothing and wines.

What's with the white lines?

[southernIM]

Originally Posted by JimmerJammerMrK

What's with the white lines?

that's an unfinished product. the point (I assume) was to illustrate all the detail and work that goes into a custom-made suit.

[Dross]

What do you think of a scooby doo tie????

[searun]

I spent about $1,400 for my interview ensemble at Nordstrom's three years ago. The suit was about $800, a classic navy blue suit. I spent about $300 on some Allen Edmonds dress shoes, plus two $80 ties, two dress shirts (white and light blue), dress socks, and one belt.

I relied on the advice of a woman who had worked in the men's clothing department at Nordstrom's for about 30 years, since I am a jeans and sweatshirt kind of guy.

I think I look pretty sharp in the suit, although probably not up to Captainnerd's rigorous standards. I plan to wear this suit next year for my residency interviews. I think that I made a good investment, especially if I have success in my interviews next year.

[captainnerd]

Originally Posted by Dross

What do you think of a scooby doo tie????

I also hate America's lack of a sense of humor. Get off the internet. Your mom is calling you for dinner.

[LizzyM]

Originally Posted by Dross

What do you think of a scooby doo tie????

I think I saw the Dean of Admissions wearing it today!

[captainnerd]

You don't have to be rich to dress well. Just like being rich means you can't dress poorly. These 3 multimillionaires prove this:

+ YouTube Video

The first two guys' suits are too large. And the last guy has a pocket square that matches his shirt? Matsui, being Japanese, is the best dressed.

You'd think they'd have personal assistants and consultants to tell them these things.

[dragon529]

Should we bring a briefcase to the interview? And what paperworks/documents should we bring along?

[rockymhs]

What do you guys think of pink shirt with white collar under the blazer?

[amakhosidlo]

No. What kind of a message does that, or any complicated, intricate, or otherwise unusual wardrobe choice say about an applicant to an interviewer? It says that they spent more time thinking about their threads than they did about the program they're interviewing for, and that they're insecure enough to think that they need to stand out visually to get it.

Keep it simple. White or blue shirt. Dark or grey suit. Conservative tie. Dress shoes that look good to you. Done.

[kevster2001]

Originally Posted by amakhosidlo

No. What kind of a message does that, or any complicated, intricate, or otherwise unusual wardrobe choice say about an applicant to an interviewer? It says that they spent more time thinking about their threads than they did about the program they're interviewing for, and that they're insecure enough to think that they need to stand out visually to get it.

Keep it simple. White or blue shirt. Dark or grey suit. Conservative tie. Dress shoes that look good to you. Done.

Yep. Being well dressed will never help you. You can only be net-zero. If you dress too over the top, you'll raise eyebrows. If you dress too casually, you'll raise eyebrows. If you within a certain range, no one gives a crap what you wear and mostly will forget in 5 minutes. What you want to stick is your personality and your credentials, not what you were wearing.

[LizzyM]

Originally Posted by dragon529

Should we bring a briefcase to the interview? And what paperworks/documents should we bring along?

You need a government issued ID/driver's license at some schools but you have that in your wallet, right?

You shouldn't need to carry anything else. If you feel the need to bring an update to your file, or a copy of a recent publication, etc, then get one of those leather(ish) folders that hold a pad of paper and tuck your paperwork into it. Most schools will give you a cardboard folder with handouts and many applicants carry that around with them.

[captainnerd]

Originally Posted by rockymhs

What do you guys think of pink shirt with white collar under the blazer?

Do it! It's not like it'll matter anyways.

[Rawls87]

I have been told to go with the professional and conservative look. Dark suit. White shirt. Solid tie. nothing fancy (watches, rings)

[LabMonster]

Originally Posted by Rawls87

I have been told to go with the professional and conservative look. Dark suit. White shirt. Solid tie. nothing fancy (watches, rings)

I have the dark suit - black. I won't wear a white shirt with a "power" tie. It's all about comfort and style I guess. I like colors, well matched, bright. I'm also sporting my wife's running watch since mine took a dump.

[LabMonster]

Originally Posted by dragon529

Should we bring a briefcase to the interview? And what paperworks/documents should we bring along?

Passport, CV, latest CHEST articles.

Something to write notes on, during the 'presentation' - but don't bring a briefcase. Just have your ID on you.

[TooMuchResearch]

Originally Posted by LabMonster

Passport, CV, latest CHEST articles.

Something to write notes on, during the 'presentation' - but don't bring a briefcase. Just have your ID on you.

They usually give out folders full of stuff that can be written on; however, at least one school I visited did not hand out anything to write with, so consider taking a pen.

[captainnerd]

Originally Posted by LabMonster

I have the dark suit - black. I won't wear a white shirt with a "power" tie. It's all about comfort and style I guess. I like colors, well matched, bright. I'm also sporting my wife's running watch since mine took a dump.

Yeah, I think that's gonna sound sweet. Bright colors, well matched. Like a yellow shirt and a sweet yellow tie. That's gonna be sweet.

[Blesbok]

Would a tie like this with a light blue shirt and a grey suit work?

[ishchayill]

Originally Posted by Blesbok

Would a tie like this with a light blue shirt and a grey suit work?

That sounds like something I would wear and it hasn't failed me so far...

Anyway, aren't you a med student already?

[Blesbok]

Originally Posted by ishchayill

That sounds like something I would wear and it hasn't failed me so far...

Anyway, aren't you a med student already?

Ya, but this is the biggest clothing thread on the site.

[FlowRate]

I'm considering dressing to wherever I interview:

i.e. dress more "trad" in the northeast. pink and green themes, maybe.

USCF seems like the place I could get away with lavender shirt - purple tie - white PS.

etc. Thoughts?

I already have two nice suits, but my tastes have developed such that I no longer think the black suit is the look for me... I kinda want to buy a couple more. Grey and navy. Solid. My dad and I buy from JAB. They're okay quality. Not Brooks Brothers, but not as expensive, either.

[brooklynblunder]

lavender? pink?

i'd go conservative (but thats just me)

white shirt, blue if you are ballsy with a regular ass tie. but then again, i got raised by a dude who used to be a residency director for a program with a mandatory white shirt rule, its just a med school interview, i dont pull out my hugo for this

you had plenty of chance to be you with the ****load of essays you wrote, the activities you did and then you have interviews. dont go looking like barney the dinosaur

[diosa428]

White shirts are boring. Wear a color. I don't care what color, but go for light/dark over bright to be more conservative. Pick a matching tie. If you can't figure out how to match, ask your girlfriend, mom, sister, dude that works in the store, whoever.

And if you're going to wear a white shirt, at least wear a patterned tie. I can't count how many white shirt/red tie combos I've seen. It looks... odd. Too formal, almost.

[captainnerd]

Originally Posted by diosa428

White shirts are boring. Wear a color. I don't care what color, but go for light/dark over bright to be more conservative. Pick a matching tie. If you can't figure out how to match, ask your girlfriend, mom, sister, dude that works in the store, whoever.

And if you're going to wear a white shirt, at least wear a patterned tie. I can't count how many white shirt/red tie combos I've seen. It looks... odd. Too formal, almost.

I recommend a black shirt. Or a dark blue shirt. Or a dark red shirt. Or a dark green shirt.

[FlowRate]

Originally Posted by brooklynblunder

dont go looking like barney the dinosaur

Lol it's much more conservative than hot pink and bright purple. Think almost-white lavender and regal-purple.

Originally Posted by captainnerd

I recommend a black shirt. Or a dark blue shirt. Or a dark red shirt. Or a dark green shirt.

Serious on the black shirt? I liked the look at one point and then realized how darn cliche it is. I swear 1/2 the guys at school wear black shirt + black pants (and black jacket if they wear a suit) + black or red tie. It's so very.. black.

[koko_eats]

Originally Posted by FlowRate

Serious on the black shirt? I liked the look at one point and then realized how darn cliche it is. I swear 1/2 the guys at school wear black shirt + black pants (and black jacket if they wear a suit) + black or red tie. It's so very.. black.

They're expressing their inner emo.

Something something dark side... something something complete.

[captainnerd]

Originally Posted by FlowRate

Lol it's much more conservative than hot pink and bright purple. Think almost-white lavender and regal-purple.



Serious on the black shirt? I liked the look at one point and then realized how darn cliche it is. I swear 1/2 the guys at school wear black shirt + black pants (and black jacket if they wear a suit) + black or red tie. It's so very.. black.

Stay away from regal-purple. I was being sarcastic about the dark colors. Read my previous posts about dark shirts. It's just funny that people say things like "wear whatever you like, it's just an interview" or "just dress normal" and then the type of advice on this thread from "normal" folks is to wear a dark shirt or to stay away from white or that you can't wear light blue.

American and normal (or average) is a terrible thing to be. I'm gonna start to give bad advice and see if you guys can catch it.

And how is a blue shirt ballsy? If it was a dark shirt, then yes, that would be ballsy. But most blue shirts on the market are light blue. This is the problem with this type of thread. You hate my nitpicking. But if you guys were giving the advice, it would be the blind leading the blind.

If you don't like white, I would suggest you guys buy a textured white shirt instead of the crappy poplin you will find at most crappy places like Macy's and JC Penny's. Or buy a broadcloth white shirt. White shirts will be the standard formal wear attire so I suggest you get many of them. However, buy poplin and you'll look like every other person, bland. Not to mention that companies try to cost-cut so that the white shirts are so thin that you can probably see nipples and belly button lint. Do yourselves a favor and invest in a few nice white shirts. Stop wearing dark colors. And stop wearing stripes so much.

[FlowRate]

Originally Posted by captainnerd

Stay away from regal-purple. I was being sarcastic about the dark colors. Read my previous posts about dark shirts. It's just funny that people say things like "wear whatever you like, it's just an interview" or "just dress normal" and then the type of advice on this thread from "normal" folks is to wear a dark shirt or to stay away from white or that you can't wear light blue.

Okay; you've usually given advice I agree with, so I wasn't sure what was up.

Why don't you like purple? Or stripes? My favorite tie is purple with a nice fabric pattern and white stripes. =\

[brooklynblunder]

bro if it was a different business casual event that had well dressed women in it, i would rock whatever colors you look good in

but as he said its an interview, some faculty are conservative



in all honesty captainnerd, people at interviews usually look good. yes we are bland, but at the same time its kinda hard juggling so many different things. the advice you should be giving on is 2 button vs 3 button, which ones to button up, when to unbutton, when to take off suits - those seem to be the things people are most uncomfortable with

its always weird to watch people sit down with all 3 of their buttons tightly attached, all uncomfy and fidgeting and stuff