Pharmacist vs Physician

[VeggieForce]

I was just thinking... If Pharmacists can make $100,000 a year and Doctors make $150,000 and more... not to mention the lesser hours for pharmacists....then how much is it worth becoming a doctor if they both are stil making 6 figure salaries which is way above what most people make annually??
just wondering and had thoughts about it..
Please dont bash on me if i said wrong statements..im one of the young ones lol im just talking financially

[schrizto]

I find I like medicine better because pharmacy just doesn't have as much opportunity for career advancement. The salary of 100k is pretty much even among all pharmacists.

[Therapist4Chnge]

Originally Posted by VeggieForce

I was just thinking... If Pharmacists can make $100,000 a year and Doctors make $150,000 and more... not to mention the lesser hours for pharmacists....then how much is it worth becoming a doctor if they both are stil making 6 figure salaries which is way above what most people make annually??
just wondering and had thoughts about it..
Please dont bash on me if i said wrong statements..im one of the young ones lol im just talking financially

There are a few things to consider:

1. The work environment. Most pharmacists seem to be in retail, which can be a detractor for some people. With pharmacies consolidating, it is a bit harder to hop jobs and collect bonuses, and most likely the average salaries have gone down because of consolidation. One of my good friends is a pharmacist, and most of her complaints were about non-pharmacy issues (scheduling changes because retailers wanted to cut down on hours and use more techs, etc). There are obviously non-retail positions, but they have their own challenges too. I work with some great clinical pharmacists in a hospital setting, and their jobs seem much more interesting to me than retail work.

2. There is a great deal more autonomy for physicians, though it will take more years and arguably longer hours to attain. Autonomy isn't always great though, because that also opens up the professional to more liability. Certain areas of medicine are REALLY expensive to practice in because of malpractice insurance and related costs.

3. I'd venture a guess that your typical applicant for pharmacy school and medical school will have different objectives and goals. It isn't a knock to one side or the other, but I think they are drawing from 2 different pools of applicants.

4. The entry level for a pharmacist coming out today is the PharmD, which takes between 6-7 years to complete. I believe combined programs have a 3+3 setup, with a more traditional route being 4+3. There are similiar programs for BS/MD that are 4+4, and some people can go 3+4 with enough transfer credits going into college....so years of schoolingisn't that much different, until internship/residency.

5. If there is a big shift in how we handle insurance in the US, that could really impact both pathes, as salaries are already going down.

[mbm54]

physicians and pharmacists are 2 completely different careers. when deciding what path of medicine to pursure, one should think more about what your interests are and less about the money earned. for example, i want to be a pediatrician and although pharmacists can make just as much money and work less hours than a physician, a career in pharmacy is of no interest to me. at the end of the day, it should be more about what makes you happy.

[Brando989]

Originally Posted by VeggieForce

I was just thinking... If Pharmacists can make $100,000 a year and Doctors make $150,000 and more... not to mention the lesser hours for pharmacists....then how much is it worth becoming a doctor if they both are stil making 6 figure salaries which is way above what most people make annually??
just wondering and had thoughts about it..
Please dont bash on me if i said wrong statements..im one of the young ones lol im just talking financially

Well if you're talking about money, then in my opinion it really isn't worth it to become a doctor.

There's plenty of careers that average 100k and more and don't require half the training needed to become an MD, also there's less stress etc etc.

I definitely wouldn't consider money to be the primary motivator for becoming a physician if I were you. It's a long, stressful endeavor and if you are interested in becoming a doctor, you need to decide why you want to do that. Make up a list of the best reasons you can think of to become a doctor, and when you need a little extra motivation refer to that list so you never lose sight of the goal you started out on.

If you do decide to go the MD track, you will be assumed at least a somewhat 'comfortable lifestyle' but don't count on being super rich. Aside from that, to be honest with you, I've never met a physician who seemed genuinely unhappy with their career choice so it can't be all bad.

Cheers,

[Therapist4Chnge]

Originally Posted by Brando989

Well if you're talking about money, then in my opinion it really isn't worth it to become a doctor.

There's plenty of careers that average 100k and more and don't require half the training needed to become an MD, also there's less stress etc etc.

MBA from a Top 5 program will net you $120-$150k coming out (maybe not in the economy though!). Granted to get into that kind of program you'd need to put in at least 2-3 years post-college at a top placement, the biz equivilant of post-bac work....but with way longer hours.

[Shinobiz11]

If you like chemistry and being less social, be a pharmacist. If you like all medical related sciences and people, be a doctor.

[cheburashka]

Originally Posted by Shinobiz11

If you like chemistry and being less social, be a pharmacist. If you like all medical related sciences and people, be a doctor.

It's absolutely the other way around, pharmacy students are SIGNIFICANTLY more social than medical students at my school.

I can compare the two crowds because I'm taking interprofessional education classes with medical students due to requirement and on top of I'm also enrolled in elective in a school of medicine, and when it comes to being much more social, having communication skills and just being more outgoing, generally speaking based on my experience at my school, pharm students out-do med students completely.

[Shinobiz11]

Originally Posted by cheburashka

It's absolutely the other way around, pharmacy students are SIGNIFICANTLY more social than medical students at my school.

I can compare the two crowds because I'm taking interprofessional education classes with medical students due to requirement and on top of I'm also enrolled in elective in a school of medicine, and when it comes to being much more social, having communication skills and just being more outgoing, generally speaking based on my experience at my school, pharm students out-do med students completely.

I'm talking about the job not the school. Pharmacists don't usually HAVE to interview and talk to people all day, while doctors do. Also there is more chemistry than anatomy and such in pharmaceutics.

[medicalCPA]

There are a lot of misconceptions going on in this thread, some are well-intentioned, but some are flat out ignorant. But before I continue, my word of advice: OP, do not evaluate the worth of a career based on dollar signs. The pharmacist makes 6 figures, as does the physician, but that does not translate to "it's not worth it to go into medicine anymore."

And now for some mythbusting...
MYTH #1:

...pharmacy just doesn't have as much opportunity for career advancement. The salary of 100k is pretty much even among all pharmacists.

Beware of blanket statements like this one. There is a range of salaries within pharmacy -- as with any career -- and being a pharmacist does not consign you to the same type of job from the day you graduate until the day you retire. The PharmD is a very versatile degree. This is a slightly dated article about pharmacy careers, and for pharmacist profiles, visit the Association of American Colleges of Pharmacy website and look at pharmacy career options here. What you get out of any career will be proportional to what you put into it, and as a new graduate, you should not expect a salary increase without working for it. Same as any job.

MYTH #2:

The entry level for a pharmacist coming out today is the PharmD, which takes between 6-7 years to complete. I believe combined programs have a 3+3 setup, with a more traditional route being 4+3.

Yes, the PharmD is the entry level degree for pharmacists today, but it can take as little as 6 years, and as many as 9. Professional pharmacy education takes four years. Many programs have prerequisites, which take 2-3 years to complete, and some pharmacy schools (although these are currently in the minority) require bachelor's degrees. Combined programs take 6 years. Pharmacy school applicants are not required to have a bachelor's degree, so an applicant can complete 2 years of pre-pharmacy prerequisites, apply to pharmacy school, and graduate 4 years later for a total of 6 years. Combined (or "0-6") programs are set up in this fashion. Accepted students complete two years of preprofessional education followed by four years of professional education.

Because pharmacy school admissions is growing more competitive every year, it is not uncommon for applicants to have bachelor's degrees before applying, so for a good number of people, it will take 8 years from the time they begin college until they can practice as pharmacists. The School of Pharmacy at University of Missouri - Kansas City has a 5 year professional program (I believe it is the only such one in the US), so an applicant with a bachelor's degree accepted there will have spent 9 years before becoming a pharmacist.

MYTH #3:

If you like chemistry and being less social, be a pharmacist. If you like all medical related sciences and people, be a doctor.

Very stereotypical. Ignorant, too, especially the bolded. Last I checked, chemistry, biology, and physics, are required of pharmacy and medical students alike. And last I checked, a lot of premeds (and prepharms) hated one or more of these, especially organic chemistry and physics. You do not have to like your prerequisites in order to become a pharmacist or a physician. You have to pass them. If the pharmacists and pharmacy students on SDN are to be believed, you can hate chemistry and still do fine in pharmacy school, for the simple reason that CHEMISTRY IS NOT THE ONLY THING YOU WILL BE DOING IN PHARMACY SCHOOL.

Much of a pharmacist's job involves communicating with people, so I do not get the whole "if you like people be a doctor." There are many antisocial people in both professions, just as there are many "people persons" in both professions. That's all I will say to avoid a pharmacist vs. doctor flame match.

Bottom line: do your research well, and choose a career you will be happy with.

[cheburashka]

Originally Posted by Shinobiz11

I'm talking about the job not the school. Pharmacists don't usually HAVE to interview and talk to people all day, while doctors do. Also there is more chemistry than anatomy and such in pharmaceutics.

I will let this one slide, because you seem to be ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS (due to probably age) about pharmaceutical profession.

What do you think pharmacists do all day in both clinical and retail setting ? Practice motivational interviewing. For example, in retail setting, pharmcists interview patients all day about their drug regimen, lifestyle habits, what otc they are taking and etc. Have you ever been actually inside a busy pharmacy and seen how many patients a pharmacist has to counsel ? It's a non-ending stream of people waiting in line. A physician may see 4 patients in an hour, while a pharmacist may see 10 patients in that time. Communication is a key in pharmaceutical profession and you really can't make ignorant statements that pharmacist are anti-social people.

I know a lot of pre-meds have a ton of pre-med pride ( I was a pre-med at one time) but there is a difference about being proud of your career choice and making ignorant statements about other professions.

[VeggieForce]

so can doctors have a comfortable lifestyle after all the study-hell they have to go through? past med-school and residency? and no more tests keep that doctor license?

i really dont want to work 70-80 hours after i would pass med-school and finish those long hours in residency...


**just want to clarify im not in it for the money

[tennisball80]

I think physicians usually get hot nurses.

[medicalCPA]

Originally Posted by VeggieForce

so can doctors have a comfortable lifestyle after all the study-hell they have to go through? past med-school and residency? and no more tests keep that doctor license?

i really dont want to work 70-80 hours after i would pass med-school and finish those long hours in residency...


**just want to clarify im not in it for the money

Apparently, you don't know what being a doctor entails. Go shadow one.

[Global Warming]

There are TV shows made after physicians and not pharmacists....therefore,

MD > Pharm.D

[cheburashka]

Originally Posted by Global Warming

There are TV shows made after physicians and not pharmacists....therefore,

MD > Pharm.D

I'm going to report you to the mods as I'm quite getting quite sick of the arogance, ignorance and superiority attitude perpetuated by pre-meds (not even med students, but pre-medical students, people are light years away from actually being an MD) on this forum.

Once you actually make it to med school (assuming you actually do and I've seen soooo many people change their mind for various reasons or simply not get in) you will see that health professions are now moving into direction of collaboration, integrative medicine and interprofessional work between various fields.

[Phlame217]

From someone who went to Pharmacy school, withdrew, and now just was accepted to Medical school there are vast differences between pharmacists and doctors, and also the pay scale in each.

First off, choose a path you want to do for the job, not the money. Money will quickly become devoid to you and if thats all you were after, you will be miserable trying to pay loans in a career you heavily dislike.

As many others have said, go shadow pharmacists in both the retail (aka fast food environment in which I've worked for two years as a Certified PhT) and clinical enviroments as do shadow Doctors in the many settings. I personally found myself heavily annoyed by retail, and research proved not to be attractive to me, yet clinical settings proved to be my niche. And on top of that, my attraction to the clinical enviroment proved to be much more from the doctor aspect rather than the pharmacists; hence my switch.

Another thing to be worried about is the surplus of pharmacists. When I first started as a technician, every single intern I worked with was offered a sign on plus job security. However, this last year only 5 out of 20 interns were offered jobs and of those 5, 3 were going to have to relocate. In two years, the job market is now heavily saturated. This is purely the retail side though, as with a Pharm.D. many other clinical or business side paths can be pursued. Pretty soon, this surplus is going to follow supply and demand and salarys are going to drop, especially with programs like Walgreen's "Power" program.

However you look at your path, do it because of the work, not the pay nor anything dealing with pay.

[Brando989]

Originally Posted by tennisball80

I think physicians usually get hot nurses.

case closed.

[Shinobiz11]

Originally Posted by cheburashka

I will let this one slide, because you seem to be ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS (due to probably age) about pharmaceutical profession.

What do you think pharmacists do all day in both clinical and retail setting ? Practice motivational interviewing. For example, in retail setting, pharmcists interview patients all day about their drug regimen, lifestyle habits, what otc they are taking and etc. Have you ever been actually inside a busy pharmacy and seen how many patients a pharmacist has to counsel ? It's a non-ending stream of people waiting in line. A physician may see 4 patients in an hour, while a pharmacist may see 10 patients in that time. Communication is a key in pharmaceutical profession and you really can't make ignorant statements that pharmacist are anti-social people.

I know a lot of pre-meds have a ton of pre-med pride ( I was a pre-med at one time) but there is a difference about being proud of your career choice and making ignorant statements about other professions.

Oh,sorry lol. I didn't want to sound arrogant, but I just didn't know. I thought pharmacists stood in labs making medicines and giving them to people at like Walgreens and stuff. Sorry for my ignorance lol.

[SOLDIER]

i dont think medicine is for u

[Danae00]

Originally Posted by VeggieForce

I was just thinking... If Pharmacists can make $100,000 a year and Doctors make $150,000 and more... not to mention the lesser hours for pharmacists....then how much is it worth becoming a doctor if they both are stil making 6 figure salaries which is way above what most people make annually??
just wondering and had thoughts about it..
Please dont bash on me if i said wrong statements..im one of the young ones lol im just talking financially

Deciding on your career based on how much money it makes is such a bad way to go. Been there, done that, which is why I'm going back to school now to end up in a job that will make less than I am now.

Money is great to have, dont' get me wrong. But when you find yourself refusing to go to sleep on Sunday night because it will bring you just *that* much coser to Monday morning, or when you are disaapointed that you didn't catch the H1N1 becuase being sick out of your mind is a much better alternative than going to work... well, you are in the wrong field.

And as it has been mentioned, there are plenty of fields where you can make over $100K a year without anything more than a bachelor's. For instance, I was offered a job for $120K only 4 years after my bachelor's degree (which I turned *down*) , and many of my friends were already making more than that.

[Artful Dodger]

You'll be surprised. There are growing opportunities in pharmacy now as they make the transition in clinical and other settings...Walgreens, CVS, etc are not the only places pharmacists can work in...

[Artful Dodger]

Originally Posted by Shinobiz11

I'm talking about the job not the school. Pharmacists don't usually HAVE to interview and talk to people all day, while doctors do. Also there is more chemistry than anatomy and such in pharmaceutics.

Not really. Both careers involve interacting with patients, but in maybe a different way. Pharmacists are the drug experts (interested in what medications do to your body); physicians are experts in diagnosis/treatment.

Note: And as society moves more toward "instant gratification" and low cost finds, less and less people will visit a doctor and that'll most likely open up more opportunities for pharmacists in patient care (i.e. clinics, hospitals, etc.). Don't quote my words, but almost a decade ago pharmacy schools made the transition from BS to PharmD for future purposes to grow/expand roles in the healthcare system (and to maybe serve as a substitute to MDs and DOs). Not totally sure on that. Would be nice if someone can elaborate here.

[NAVY DDS 2010]

Originally Posted by Shinobiz11

If you like chemistry and being less social, be a pharmacist. If you like all medical related sciences and people, be a doctor.

It really depends on the pharmacy a pharmacist works at. Some pharmacies only stress volume for their profit margins. but other pharmacies truly care about the patients coming in, so they encourage pharmacist patient interaction.

[Electrophile]

For anyone who is animal oriented, it's my understanding that with some additional training, you can also become a veterinary pharmacist. Compounding in particular is heavily utilized in our patients.

[Therapist4Chnge]

Originally Posted by Electrophile

For anyone who is animal oriented, it's my understanding that with some additional training, you can also become a veterinary pharmacist. Compounding in particular is heavily utilized in our patients.

Wow....I didn't even know that there were veterinary pharmacists!

[Electrophile]

Yes, in fact the head pharmacist in our teaching hospital is a RVT (registered veterinary technician, the equivalent of a veterinary nurse) and a PharmD. We also just recently got a DVM PharmD, which is pretty cool. Many veterinary doctors stock and dispense their own medications, but they write scripts for human pharmacies for drugs they don't have in stock. They also use compounding pharmacies to make up drugs in a way animals will reliably take them.

[cheburashka]

Originally Posted by Electrophile

For anyone who is animal oriented, it's my understanding that with some additional training, you can also become a veterinary pharmacist. Compounding in particular is heavily utilized in our patients.

Yes, in fact our school teaches an elective next quarter on veterinary pharmacy, but we also can take an online class from a different pharmacy school (another major university) that has extended its acceptance to the students from our school. I am interested so depending on my schedule, I might take it.

[Electrophile]

Cool! Our pharmacology classes were pretty difficult. Not my favorite stuff. The species differences just drive you crazy sometimes. I'm curious to see how they're taught in pharm school. Let us know how it goes if you take it.

[genesis09]

Amount of vet pharmacy I took in Pharm school=0
When I see a Vet rx, I just have to hope it is right

[denner]

Originally Posted by cheburashka

I'm going to report you to the mods as I'm quite getting quite sick of the arogance, ignorance and superiority attitude perpetuated by pre-meds (not even med students, but pre-medical students, people are light years away from actually being an MD) on this forum.

Once you actually make it to med school (assuming you actually do and I've seen soooo many people change their mind for various reasons or simply not get in) you will see that health professions are now moving into direction of collaboration, integrative medicine and interprofessional work between various fields.

Holy ****, ease up. Note the laughing guy at the end of the post. Guess all that extra socializing...

Originally Posted by cheburashka

It's absolutely the other way around, pharmacy students are SIGNIFICANTLY more social than medical students at my school.

...didn't teach you how to identify sarcasm.

(NOTE: I'm messing with you so don't report me too)

However, I will admit that a lot of pre-meds (pre-anythings really, we're all pretentious asses from time to time) are like that so I can understand why you might think that was a serious statement.

Originally Posted by Artful Dodger

Not really. Both careers involve interacting with patients, but in maybe a different way. Pharmacists are the drug experts (interested in what medications do to your body); physicians are experts in diagnosis/treatment.

Note: And as society moves more toward "instant gratification" and low cost finds, less and less people will visit a doctor and that'll most likely open up more opportunities for pharmacists in patient care (i.e. clinics, hospitals, etc.). Don't quote my words, but almost a decade ago pharmacy schools made the transition from BS to PharmD for future purposes to grow/expand roles in the healthcare system (and to maybe serve as a substitute to MDs and DOs). Not totally sure on that. Would be nice if someone can elaborate here.

Good post, but how much clinical diagnosis training does a pharmacy student receive that would make them qualified to be more involved in patient care? Don't flame me, I'm just curious, I don't know what is and is not included in a pharmacy school curriculum. (And I mean outside of the usual drug consultation type stuff) You seem to be implying that more patients may just go straight to the pharmacist instead of seeing a physician, which raises questions about their qualifications for diagnosis/treatment. Forgive me if I am understanding you wrong.

[BlitzSleep]

Originally Posted by VeggieForce

I was just thinking... If Pharmacists can make $100,000 a year and Doctors make $150,000 and more... not to mention the lesser hours for pharmacists....then how much is it worth becoming a doctor if they both are stil making 6 figure salaries which is way above what most people make annually??
just wondering and had thoughts about it..
Please dont bash on me if i said wrong statements..im one of the young ones lol im just talking financially

If you're just talking financially, getting your MBA would be your best bet. Being a physician is worth more to me because the title holds more prestige and no other career that I can think of would give me a more satisfying self fulfillment.

[BlitzSleep]

Originally Posted by cheburashka

I'm going to report you to the mods as I'm quite getting quite sick of the arogance, ignorance and superiority attitude perpetuated by pre-meds (not even med students, but pre-medical students, people are light years away from actually being an MD) on this forum.

Once you actually make it to med school (assuming you actually do and I've seen soooo many people change their mind for various reasons or simply not get in) you will see that health professions are now moving into direction of collaboration, integrative medicine and interprofessional work between various fields.

[Electrophile]

Originally Posted by genesis09

Amount of vet pharmacy I took in Pharm school=0
When I see a Vet rx, I just have to hope it is right

No offense, but that makes me go , not gonna lie!