How bad is 205 on Step I for Ortho match?

people with ur score range have matched.... beast step 2, research, ms3 grades and ur ai can help.

The National Residency Match Program (NRMP) puts out a pdf every year documenting the board scores of people who did and did not match in specific specialties. In the most recent document (2007), 30/56 applicants who applied to ortho residencies matched. Thus, all other things equal, you still have a greater than 50% chance of matching at some program. If you go to hopkins (as your name would indicate) your chances are probably even better. Don't let the pompous people on SDN tell you that you need a 260+/AOA to match. It is still well within your reach. That said, basupran is probably right, you really want to pound step 2 and third year to make it happen. Here's a link to the document http://www.aamc.org/programs/cim/chartingoutcomes.pdf

ariff8 said:

The National Residency Match Program (NRMP) puts out a pdf every year documenting the board scores of people who did and did not match in specific specialties. In the most recent document (2007), 30/56 applicants who applied to ortho residencies matched. Thus, all other things equal, you still have a greater than 50% chance of matching at some program. If you go to hopkins (as your name would indicate) your chances are probably even better. Don't let the pompous people on SDN tell you that you need a 260+/AOA to match. It is still well within your reach. That said, basupran is probably right, you really want to pound step 2 and third year to make it happen. Here's a link to the document http://www.aamc.org/programs/cim/chartingoutcomes.pdf

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I think that is somewhat incomplete data to just say you have a greater than 50% chance. How many people were thinking ortho and then got a board score of 205? A lot of them would end up dissuaded and not end up applying. Or their dean might discourage them from applying, etc.

Also, the NRMP data is based only on applicants who applied, interviewed, and were ranked - so you have to consider the number of people who did apply with 205s and then just never got to the interview phase.

Bottom line, the OP needs to get some advice from people at their school who know how their students do - talk to the dean for students, talk to the ortho program director, etc.

jhu1 said:

just got my Step I the other day ... 205 ... lower than my lowest practice exam by a great margine but it is what it is ... does that mean its over for me if I wanted to do Ortho residency? Does Step II matter at all? any ortho research publication would help at all?

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I recently had a long discussion on matching into Ortho with a few residents. They said while step 1 is important it isn't everything. Other stuff matters so make your other stuff even better! Good luck!

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Jccripe said:

205 is very low. I would imagine you not getting very very few interviews. I am sorry to be so blunt and realistic, but ortho is becoming more competitive each year and having to scramble is the worst thing ever. It would be much better to enter you next pick specialty.

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Speaking as someone who had to scramble a couple years ago, I can tell you that's incorrect. What's worse, in my opinion, is "settling" for your second or third choice ecause someone told you back in medical school that you didn't have a shot.

This is it. This is the rest of your life. Do you want to go through it asking "what if?"

Everyone is right to a certain extent. At this point, realize that you will be running a constant uphill marathon until you match. Decide first if you are willing to run this marathon with all your might. If you are willing to run, block out all the comments along the lines of 'you will never match' and do what is necessary to match. Again, there are people with 205s that did match, but they went above and beyond to prove their worthiness as a candidate.

Best of luck man.

Here's an article from a few years back that may interest you

http://www.eastbayexpress.com/news/surviving_the_match/Content?oid=395335

It talks about a Stanford Med Student who had subpar board scores and didn't match into ortho. They don't give many details about where exactly he applied, but he did some aways where he was told that he was an excellent clinician. He had the sense to apply to a back up research position BEFORE the match, and worked there for a couple years before taking a prelim surg spot at UCSF. He is now an Ortho Resident at UCSF! You should apply wisely and create back up strategies. You may very well end up having to apply more than once, but you will make it eventually.

Pompacil said:

Speaking as someone who had to scramble a couple years ago, I can tell you that's incorrect. What's worse, in my opinion, is "settling" for your second or third choice ecause someone told you back in medical school that you didn't have a shot.

This is it. This is the rest of your life. Do you want to go through it asking "what if?"

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There's no doubt you're gonna have to step it up, but if you maximize future opportunities (Step 2, your surgery rotation, away roatations, research, etc.), you still could have a shot. Also, even though I'm not a fan of matching into a specialty based on connections, I really think this could be the X factor in determining whether or not you match. I'm not saying be a suck ass, but definitely set yourself apart from your peers when you're on the aforementioned critical rotations. Best of luck.

As someone who was in your position a few years ago, I can tell you it is a big problem. My home program, and the programs I did aways at interviewed me. Besides those there were only two others that invited me for an interview. I applied widely, but what it came down to is that some programs don't even bother looking at your file unless you meet their magic number. Others may look at your file, but will need to be convinced based on your other data. I was a female applicant coming from a school that was pass/fail for the first two years, so there wasn't a lot to help me there. You will get asked about it on your interviews (I did at every one, and by pretty much every different interviewer). Not matching will be just about the worst day of your life (depending on your other life experiences, I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer around the same time, and it helped put things back in perspective). Scrambling sucks, and you probably won't be able to scramble into an ortho spot. You can then choose to do a prelim year, or research, or give up and pick a different specialty. Your school will be pushing you to pick something, even in another specialty, because people without residencies make them look bad. You can then go through the process again a year later, and theoretically continue until you match ortho, pick another specialty, or quit. I opted to do research, got some publications, applied even more broadly, still only got five interviews, and decided if it didn't work out it probably never would and applied to 10 g-surg programs concurrently. Ended up with my first choice g-surg program (figured if I was going to go into my fallback specialty I could at least do it at a place where they didn't treat the residents like crap). Applied for a few openings for second year positions around the time I was doing my ortho rotations since my ortho attendings thought I was a great fit for ortho and offered to write me letters, but nothing panned out. Now I am in my third year, and I have made peace with the way things are. I don't regret trying for ortho, because I really think it is the better specialty for my interests and personality. But, I also didn't want to spend forever trying when I knew there wasn't much else I could do to change my application (rocked step 2, clinical evals were great, did as much as possible with research short of doing it for several years) or my gender (which may or may not have made things harder). That said, if I had been "kinda interested" in ortho, or if I equally liked two specialties, and the other was one where my chances were better, I probably would have saved myself the heartache, headache, and expense of it all.

Krista, why are you advertising for ortho of seattle in your signature?

what is your bench press? do you know who threw the most TD passes during the 1994 NFL season? these are the things you really need to focus on.

Not impossible, but like others said, you will have to fight up hill and you will most likely end up in a lower end program. But on the positive side, if it is worth it to you, you will make it with a lot of work.

Blesbok said:

Not impossible, but like others said, you will have to fight up hill and you will most likely end up in a lower end program. But on the positive side, if it is worth it to you, you will make it with a lot of work.

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And, at the end of the day, even those that go to "lower end programs" still end up at good fellowships in all subspecialties, and practice what they love.

Blesbok said:

in a lower end program.

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Define?

Pompacil said:

Define?

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opposite of a top rate program......

Pompacil said:

Define?

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Less sought after is probably a better term.

Blesbok said:

Less sought after is probably a better term.

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Probably need to define "less sought after" as well. Does that mean less then 100, 200, 300, ect apps total?